See title, I'm looking for some introductory information on how to deal with 3-4 enclosures, specifically large knight and two point jump.
I checked senseis, but the information there is pretty bare overall.
Josekipedia on the other hand is a bit overwhelming, lots of variations with little explanation.
Something ideal would be a lecture or two that go over the most common post alpha-go variations or a book that gives a little introduction to the situation.
Thanks in advance
Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
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Gomoto
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
Basic Idea: Usually you should stay away from the large knight move enclosure until quite late in the game (only think about invading or reducing after some moves happened on the outside). But this is by no means an introductory issue. Pros struggle with this question as well.
Some example games:
Shin Jinseo, 9p - Shin Minjun, 9p, W+R (Komi 6.5)
year 2018 Korean League, round 13, 2018-09-30
a and b were (much) better options for white
Kono Rin, 9p - Akiyama Jiro, 9p, W+2.5 (Komi 6.5)
66th Japanese NHK Cup, round 2, 2018-09-23
again a and b were better options for white
and one final example:
Chang Suyeong, 9p - Paek Seongho, 9p, B+R (Komi 6.5)
3rd Korea Senior Baduk League, round 14, 2018-09-19
a is the best option, b if you insist playing in the local area
Some example games:
Shin Jinseo, 9p - Shin Minjun, 9p, W+R (Komi 6.5)
year 2018 Korean League, round 13, 2018-09-30
a and b were (much) better options for white
Kono Rin, 9p - Akiyama Jiro, 9p, W+2.5 (Komi 6.5)
66th Japanese NHK Cup, round 2, 2018-09-23
again a and b were better options for white
and one final example:
Chang Suyeong, 9p - Paek Seongho, 9p, B+R (Komi 6.5)
3rd Korea Senior Baduk League, round 14, 2018-09-19
a is the best option, b if you insist playing in the local area
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Gomoto
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
You ask about a book or lecture. If you want to learn about tactical situations today I recommend this different approach. Aquire a pro database like Go4Go, search the situation with Kombilo and review with AI. (Books are not up to date and wrong quite often.)
I like tsume go books by the way, even the old ones
I like tsume go books by the way, even the old ones
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Uberdude
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
My approach is different to Gomoto's: attach early and often to large low shimaris. It might not be the best but it's fun!
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paK0
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
Thanks for your suggestions, however I don't think either way is the right approach for me.
@Gomoto: I usually go over my own games with LZ and get my joseki from what I get there (so at least its relevant to the games I play), but these enclosures don't show up often enough to get a cohesive picture, but they are there often enough that its a pain not knowing how to deal with them. It seems like LZ is highly sensitive to the local and whole board situation, something that I can't replicate, so I'm looking for a handful of ways that are "just ok" but generally applicable.
@Uberdude: I really don't like this "go in and improvise" approach, more often than not it ends badly for me.
@Gomoto: I usually go over my own games with LZ and get my joseki from what I get there (so at least its relevant to the games I play), but these enclosures don't show up often enough to get a cohesive picture, but they are there often enough that its a pain not knowing how to deal with them. It seems like LZ is highly sensitive to the local and whole board situation, something that I can't replicate, so I'm looking for a handful of ways that are "just ok" but generally applicable.
@Uberdude: I really don't like this "go in and improvise" approach, more often than not it ends badly for me.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
IMHO, in go you can't really avoid some degree of jumping into the river to learn how to swim. Fortunately, when you drown, as I have done many, many times, all that dies are stones.paK0 wrote:@Uberdude: I really don't like this "go in and improvise" approach, more often than not it ends badly for me.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Kirby
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
Still try to swim, though. Sometimes I feel like I'm just flailing.Bill Spight wrote:IMHO, in go you can't really avoid some degree of jumping into the river to learn how to swim. Fortunately, when you drown, as I have done many, many times, all that dies are stones.paK0 wrote:@Uberdude: I really don't like this "go in and improvise" approach, more often than not it ends badly for me.
be immersed
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Uberdude
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
Here's an sgf with some of the most common new josekis from AI around the big shimaris:
- Attachments
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- big shimari AI joseki.sgf
- (6.74 KiB) Downloaded 1837 times
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paK0
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
@Bill: True, but that doesn't mean I can't get some information beforehand
@Uberdude: Thanks, that is amazing.
@Uberdude: Thanks, that is amazing.
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Farodin
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
The first time I read this, I started wondering since when we started classifying Go Seigen as a strong AIstrong AIs, like Go Seigen, seems to see small shimari as a bit slow and liable to overconcentration
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Gomoto
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Re: Basic ideas for large 3-4 enclosures
Fuseki example were an early attachment seems reasonable:
(a,b,c,d are viable alternatives for white)
example continuation: or:
(a,b,c,d are viable alternatives for white)
example continuation: or:
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Gomoto
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