After white's marked stone, I played the following sequence:
I see this large knights move quite often. I realize that the joseki move is black 1 at 6. However, in this case, the joseki move didn't seem right to me. With the wall on top, the outside seemed more valuable than the corner. Plus there seem to be two other advantages -- First, the marked black stone allows me to develop a full center facing wall on the right side and the stone at O3 (usually at N3) limits black's profit from white 6.
What am I missing? Lizzie evaluates black's win percentage at 80% after both before 1 and after 7. However, this is largely due to white 6. Were white to push at R8 for 6 (honestly, as I expected) and black responded as usual with the double hane sequence, white would gain about 10 percentage points. (Lizzie slightly prefers ramming the marked white stone to the joseki move of 1 at 6, but it's a difference of less than one percent.) Why isn't the resulting wall worth less than the side and corner territory?
Question About a Recent Move
-
BlindGroup
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:27 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- IGS: 4k
- Universal go server handle: BlindGroup
- Has thanked: 295 times
- Been thanked: 64 times
-
Calvin Clark
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:43 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 186 times
- Been thanked: 191 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
What does Lizzie say about 
at 
or at R4? While I see the moyo in the game sequence, in my experience the AIs have little respect for them and helping white connect the large knight's slide may be too much especially with the marked black stone in place, but I'm not sure.
at or at R4? While I see the moyo in the game sequence, in my experience the AIs have little respect for them and helping white connect the large knight's slide may be too much especially with the marked black stone in place, but I'm not sure.-
Joaz Banbeck
- Judan
- Posts: 5546
- Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
- Rank: 1D AGA
- GD Posts: 1512
- Kaya handle: Test
- Location: Banbeck Vale
- Has thanked: 1080 times
- Been thanked: 1434 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
Move 7 in the original post looks like it was played while looking at a joseki book and not the board.
How about this:
How about this:
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
-
Gomoto
- Gosei
- Posts: 1733
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:56 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Location: Earth
- Has thanked: 621 times
- Been thanked: 310 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
I dont like josekipedia on this position (1 at R3). 1 at R4 is usually much better than R3.
[Edit: After a deeper look I revise my opinion, it depends as always
]
[Edit: After a deeper look I revise my opinion, it depends as always
]
Last edited by Gomoto on Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
BlindGroup
- Lives in gote
- Posts: 388
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:27 pm
- GD Posts: 0
- IGS: 4k
- Universal go server handle: BlindGroup
- Has thanked: 295 times
- Been thanked: 64 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
Calvin Clark wrote:What does Lizzie say about
After 5,000 playouts, R4 = 78.6% and S6 = 78.3%, but both are very slightly better than R3 = 77.6%.Gomoto wrote:I dont like josekipedia on this position (1 at R3). 1 at R4 is usually much better than R3.
-
Joaz Banbeck
- Judan
- Posts: 5546
- Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
- Rank: 1D AGA
- GD Posts: 1512
- Kaya handle: Test
- Location: Banbeck Vale
- Has thanked: 1080 times
- Been thanked: 1434 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
G4 is so strong, I might have played this:Joaz Banbeck wrote:...
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
-
Uberdude
- Judan
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
- Rank: UK 4 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Uberdude 4d
- OGS: Uberdude 7d
- Location: Cambridge, UK
- Has thanked: 436 times
- Been thanked: 3718 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
BlindGroup, I think you need to think more about the weakness of groups: when white slide you should be first thinking "Is this white group strong?" Answer: no. So the general idea should not be to help white to live (which is what your pushy moves from the centre do), but to keep it weak and attack. The cut at s6 leaps out to me, and is probably even better than it deserves against the level of opponents you play as they probably won't find the fancy dodges for white like q3 attachment, but just get cut and make 1 dead group and 1 weak group and then you are doing great.
And look what I just saw on Fox (and yes Lee Changho played the attachment inside corner next):
And look what I just saw on Fox (and yes Lee Changho played the attachment inside corner next):
- Attachments
-
- slidey cut.PNG (516 KiB) Viewed 5999 times
-
MikeKyle
- Lives with ko
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:27 am
- Rank: EGF 2k
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: MKyle
- Has thanked: 49 times
- Been thanked: 36 times
Re: Question About a Recent Move
Curiously I was watching this game being filmed.
Lee Changho looked about as surprised by this move as I have seen him look (ie. Not at all)
Lee Changho looked about as surprised by this move as I have seen him look (ie. Not at all)