Can I become pro? Two questions.

[Aureliano Buendía]

Start your own professional go association.

Well then, let's make that the fourth order of business. :P

basically if you are strong enough you can go and become pro anywhere,but thats not rwally the issue,yiu have to become very strong,acutually do you have enough time and patience to study the game seriously?because if you want to get that strong go is not just a fun game all the time,but if you know that you will face a thousands of defeats and disappointments,and have the right methods it is possible,the right methods and mind is most important

Very good points. I'll follow Uberdude's advice. Let's see what and how long it takes to get to 2 dan, if I ever get there, then I'll think about what to do (or not do) next.

Close to that, yes. There are countless people that discover go at 30+ years, but in the last 20 years, how many made pro?

Well, I got the answer I wanted from this topic: It's possible, but highly unlikely. I'll focus on "possible" for as long as I can before before I feel in my bones the "highly unlikely," then I'll reflect about what to do.

After several years, I’m a bit stronger than 1d, one of my original goals.

How many are those several years, if I may ask?

I'd say get to 1 dan first, then see how long it takes to get to 2 dan and multiply by 5 to 10.

Sounds like a plan.

Sometime - in the next several decades - the fastest way to become pro will be with implants.
Soon after, pro strength will rise, and then the only way to become a pro will be with implants.

Sometime between those two points we will see airport-style full body scanners at the sign-up table at major tournaments.

How come no sci-fi writer has published something like that yet?

If you have any chance to do it, play a real life game against a 5d child 7 years old.
I had that opportunity, it's very helpful to make estimation on your own chance to get to pro level.

I knew Korean kids were strong, but I had no idea that it was possible to be 5d at 7 years old! Just knowing this does wonders for the estimation already!

[Vio]

Chinese kid.

[EdLee]

I had no idea that it was possible to be 5d at 7 years old!

Nakamura Sumire

[gowan]

There have been Western amateurs who managed to become pro in one or another Asian country. The first two were Manfred Wimmer (Germany) and James Kerwin (USA). Kerwin got his pro status in Japan from the Nihon Ki-in by special recommendation. He won the 1p section of an early Kisei tournament, which showed that his pro status was justified. Wimmer got his pro status from the Kansai Ki-in and subsequently he earned promotion to 2p. I don't know the ages of these two people exactly, certainly in their twenties at least if not thirties. Kerwin went to Japan to study to become a pro at some time after graduation from college. I think both Kerwin and Wimmer got their status by some method other than fighting through the qualification tournament. Michael Redmond went to Japan from the USA at age 13 to study to become a pro. He became a shodan through the insei system, as most Asian youngsters do, and rose rather rapidly through the pro ranks, eventually reaching 9p, the only person not from the Asian Go countries to reach 9p. People over 30 would no doubt have to get some sort of special promotion to become 1p.

If one wishes to study with a pro there are various ways to do that without going to Asia. Yilun Yang, Chinese 7p, lives in the Los Angeles area and teaches online. Guo Juan, Chinese 5p, lives in Holland and also teaches online. There are various other pros in the USA or Europe who teach online or in person. This page on the AGA website lists a number of pro teachers: http://www.usgo.org/go-professionals-us-and-canada

[Kirby]

After several years, I’m a bit stronger than 1d, one of my original goals.

How many are those several years, if I may ask?

I don't recall exactly, but I think it took me 4 or 5 years to get to 1d? Not quite sure - I'm not that talented at go, so it took me awhile. I remember I had studied go for 6 months after first learning the rules, then taught the game to my college roommate, who proceeded to beat me in his first game.

I do believe that my getting to 1d was from deliberate study (mostly tsumego). I had the very clear goal of breaking 1d on KGS.

I've been between KGS 1d and 2d for probably 10 years now. Technically, I got to AGA 3d at one point, but I typically believed my KGS ranking more, because I don't play that many tournaments.

[Kirby]

Kerwin went to Japan to study to become a pro at some time after graduation from college.

I seem to recall that one of Kerwin's primary methods for getting stronger was to play stronger players as much as possible. I may be imagining things, though.

[Vio]

To enter the Dan class is already a nice achievement that only few ama players reach (2-3% maybe?), even in Asian countries if you consider how many players did play the game there.
Aiming to be between them is already a nice first hard target,before aiming to be the Picasso, the Gaudi or the Bocuse of the go world.

[Bill Spight]

To enter the Dan class is already a nice achievement that only few ama players reach (2-3% maybe?), even in Asian countries if you consider how many players did play the game there.
Aiming to be between them is already a nice first hard target,before aiming to be the Picasso, the Gaudi or the Bocuse of the go world.

Well, there are amateur players and amateur players. If we include occasional players and casual players, I expect that the percentage of dan players is minuscule. But if we include regular online players, I think that the percentage is much higher. OC, the percentage of dan players on any server is variable, but to reach the top 5% of online players you probably have to reach something like 4 dan. (That's what I found some years ago on KGS.)

[jlt]

Some people are not in the stats because they are no longer active. The European Go Database has some stats:
http://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/EG ... system.php

As of Jan 2019, there are 6752 active players, among which 1073 (16%) with a Go Rating 2050 or above (i.e. 1d or above). The top 5% have a GoR 2304 or above (GoR 2304 is in the middle of 3d).

However, the total number of players who ever participated in an European tournament is 42287. Among these, 3162 (7%) are dan players.

Of course, among the 5679 currently active kyu players, a few hundred will reach dan level in the future, so my guess is that among all players who are active enough to participate in a tournament, about 10% are or will be at least 1d EGF, and about 5% are or will be at least 2d EGF.

See also here https://idex.github.io/go-rank-survey/g ... mean-ranks
a comparison between various ranking systems.

[John Fairbairn]

Here's an indirect way of assessing whether you are budding pro material. It's from Michael Redmond's autobiography. When Michael was 11, Iwamoto visited his hometown Santa Barbara and gave a lecture to a crowd of strong players, including some Japanese or nisei. As Michael was so small he had to perch on the knee of Richard Dolen just to see - Dolen was a high-dan player and (I think) possibly the best American player at the time. He acted as Michael's mentor.

Iwamoto presented the following problem. Black to play.



Although Michael phrased this the Japanese way as "virtually no-one could solve it," he seems to have been the only one and was called out to demonstrate the answer. He elicited high praise from Iwamoto, who shortly after became Michael's "second teacher" when Michael was invited to train as a pro in Japan.

What is interesting to me is that Michael seems not to have regarded this as a hard problem. The book is not clear on the specifics of timing, but Michael seems to have been more interested in WHY Iwamoto chose that problem for the lecture. He deduced that it must have been just to show an interesting facet of go. In other words, there seems to have been be a hint of "why show such an easy problem?" in his young mind.

[Vio]

Some people are not in the stats because they are no longer active. The European Go Database has some stats:

Active? Not only. Simply not registered I would say. Hard to guess in a precise way but surely not people to neglect. Who knows? 10 times more players?

One main concern to be registered is to be allowed to play tournaments so I do expect a higher pourcentage of Dan players.


Starting by the level of the OP, I think it makes sense to aim at 2%, well, more sense as already restricting the population by criteria he doesn't fulfill yet!
as 99% of these players will still beat him.

So beating in some years 98% of these could be an ambitious and rewarding first step to aim at!

[Bill Spight]

Here's an indirect way of assessing whether you are budding pro material.

I think that you are being unfair to Buendía. I doubt if Redmond had played as little go at the time as Buendía has now.

Dolen was a high-dan player and (I think) possibly the best American player at the time. He acted as Michael's mentor.

Nothing against Richard, but he was not the best American player then, not even the best American born player. He may have been the best US Caucasian, but Bruce Wilcox could probably have given him a run for his money.

Iwamoto presented the following problem. Black to play.



Although Michael phrased this the Japanese way as "virtually no-one could solve it," he seems to have been the only one and was called out to demonstrate the answer. He elicited high praise from Iwamoto, who shortly after became Michael's "second teacher" when Michael was invited to train as a pro in Japan.

This is a fun problem for any aspiring pro to play around with.

[Aureliano Buendía]

Nakamura Sumire

Amazing!

There have been Western amateurs who managed to become pro in one or another Asian country. The first two were Manfred Wimmer (Germany) and James Kerwin (USA). Kerwin got his pro status in Japan from the Nihon Ki-in by special recommendation. He won the 1p section of an early Kisei tournament, which showed that his pro status was justified. Wimmer got his pro status from the Kansai Ki-in and subsequently he earned promotion to 2p. I don't know the ages of these two people exactly, certainly in their twenties at least if not thirties. Kerwin went to Japan to study to become a pro at some time after graduation from college. I think both Kerwin and Wimmer got their status by some method other than fighting through the qualification tournament. Michael Redmond went to Japan from the USA at age 13 to study to become a pro. He became a shodan through the insei system, as most Asian youngsters do, and rose rather rapidly through the pro ranks, eventually reaching 9p, the only person not from the Asian Go countries to reach 9p. People over 30 would no doubt have to get some sort of special promotion to become 1p.

If one wishes to study with a pro there are various ways to do that without going to Asia. Yilun Yang, Chinese 7p, lives in the Los Angeles area and teaches online. Guo Juan, Chinese 5p, lives in Holland and also teaches online. There are various other pros in the USA or Europe who teach online or in person. This page on the AGA website lists a number of pro teachers: http://www.usgo.org/go-professionals-us-and-canada

Your post is absolute gold!

I don't recall exactly, but I think it took me 4 or 5 years to get to 1d? Not quite sure - I'm not that talented at go, so it took me awhile. I remember I had studied go for 6 months after first learning the rules, then taught the game to my college roommate, who proceeded to beat me in his first game.

I do believe that my getting to 1d was from deliberate study (mostly tsumego). I had the very clear goal of breaking 1d on KGS.

I've been between KGS 1d and 2d for probably 10 years now. Technically, I got to AGA 3d at one point, but I typically believed my KGS ranking more, because I don't play that many tournaments.

Thank you very much, Kirby!

To enter the Dan class is already a nice achievement that only few ama players reach (2-3% maybe?), even in Asian countries if you consider how many players did play the game there.
Aiming to be between them is already a nice first hard target,before aiming to be the Picasso, the Gaudi or the Bocuse of the go world.

I agree.

Iwamoto presented the following problem. Black to play.

???

Here's an indirect way of assessing whether you are budding pro material.

I think that you are being unfair to Buendía.

Well, I did come here inquiring about becoming a pro. I was kind of asking for some "unfairness." And so far I am really enjoying it. :]

I doubt if Redmond had played as little go at the time as Buendía has now.

Come on! I have been playing for almost one month now! An average of just one game per day so far, because of some special circumstances, and mostly on 9x9, but still! ;]

Iwamoto presented the following problem. Black to play.



Although Michael phrased this the Japanese way as "virtually no-one could solve it," he seems to have been the only one and was called out to demonstrate the answer. He elicited high praise from Iwamoto, who shortly after became Michael's "second teacher" when Michael was invited to train as a pro in Japan.

This is a fun problem for any aspiring pro to play around with.

I knew I was missing something.

[Bill Spight]

Your turn.

[Aureliano Buendía]

Your turn.

Of course...

Hang on.