65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

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Kie
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Kie »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I like cash, that's just the way it is.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I assume black will deal with the dubbelatari first, now that white took the corner, black must first of all prevent the three stones from getting a good position. I guess (a) is most severe, but has some bad aji. I dunno what black will play, but I'll try to start looking at strategies soon, so far I have just been flowing along, I guess I need to take my gloves off now that the fighting begins.
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
so he likes points. then i should have some points or influence by attacking his weak group
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Kie
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Kie »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O W . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'll just connect now, this keeps black from getting a 100% secure group. Whenever I have weak group, I try to keep some aji-around so that you just don't bang your head against absolute thickness.

Black obviously can't bend on the outside now:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X 3 X 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O 2 X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess connecting is the only move. Like this white settles quite ok. Since I pocketed cash earlier and have komi, I fail to see that this would be very bad for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X 6 . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Black counter at :b5: is plausible, but black isn't 100% alive so white should be able to move out in the center and take black with him. Again, white got the left corner, so if black get the right corner, it's probably a fair exchange. Black corner is potentially bigger, but needs another move to secure so it looks alright to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X 7 X 4 . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The double-hane is complicated but it doesn't feel very reasonable:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O 1 X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 6 3 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
only move
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The greater the unknown"
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Kie »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by unkx80 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Better move? If a then b; if b then a (yeowch!).
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by uglyboxer »

unkx80 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Better move? If a then b; if b then a (yeowch!).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X 1 . . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If b then a, what is whites follow up to c? Black would not be in trouble and white would have to make a low move like d to live, no?
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by hyperpape »

uglyboxer wrote:
unkx80 wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Better move? If a then b; if b then a (yeowch!).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X 1 . . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If b then a, what is whites follow up to c? Black would not be in trouble and white would have to make a low move like d to live, no?
I would think black is unhappy. His group isn't terribly weak, but neither is it strong or accomplishing anything. White is happy to take the corner and settle easily on the outside.
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
he can not seal me in the middle..now i am attacking his weak group, if he block i can play "3" it looks like a strong attack on his group. is it correct?? probably not. i have to study the variations more. but i like the shape and it is strong.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X 1 2 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Kie
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Kie »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Warning! OT rant ahead:

As mentioned earlier, I haven't had my groove for a while, and yesterday I played a fairly strong player and I lost. That's life, but the game was very long and grueling, lots of fighting and trade-offs and so forth and in the end I lost by poor endgame. However, it became clear to me that I'm not trying to win in go anymore, I just trail along avoiding things that lead to disaster. It's often possible to win games like this because the oponent makes mistakes and sort of kill themselves, but against strong players, you do need something more. You need the will to win, trying to plan ahead of your oponent, lure him into your strategies and traps and so forth. I lack that right now.

I have some serious training to do to get out of this lazy kind of playing. I don't think I can surpass my current level unless I make some serious change.

Game:

I'm just gonna follow-up my move then. If I answer black now my previous move makes no sense, so here goes. Black will cut. Black must cut.

Maybe along these lines:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O 1 . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Peter Hansmeier
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Peter Hansmeier »

To Magicwand:
Did you consider cutting?
To Kie:
How will you keep your floating group from becoming heavy? Against strong players these groups always turn into headaches for me.
I am Tartuffe from GoDiscussions.com
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Magicwand
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Magicwand »

[quote="Peter Hansmeier"]To Magicwand:
Did you consider cutting?
no i didnt. i believe i can cut but...but i dont think i need to play that cut. i already accomplished my goal of not getting sealed in. also what i have answered is better than the cut(IMO). sorry about lack of variation...it is too complicated to predict what he will play so i will wait till he plays the move
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Kie »

How will you keep your floating group from becoming heavy? Against strong players these groups always turn into headaches for me.
It's the art of Shinogi, and one of the most difficult aspects of the game. I can't really give a good answer because I'm still much a novice myself in that area.

But personally, I try to counterattack if possible, whatever you do, try avoid getting pushed around. It's better to die that live in submission. (I mean this literally, I actually often die with groups in my games, even the ones I win.)
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Re: 65. Magicwand (4d) - Kie (3d)

Post by Kie »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I did not expect that. Either way, he forced my hand here, I can only answer with the double hane.

For me, it's better to resign that let black play something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Of course, black will cut now (that's what I said last time, but this time it's even more impossible not to), so I have some options now. I can run at (a) or play at (b).

Of course, playing at (b) means that my 4 stones can be killed, but only at the cost of white getting a sente-ponnuki in the center. If black connects it reduced the liberties of his top group, which makes it easier to run with (a) afterwards.

The only real question here is whether the ponnuki is enough compensation or not. I think so but I'm not 100% sure.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O X O O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X X O . a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b X O 2 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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