Books with or without board?

[Jika]

Hi

I am a complete beginner and I have one book and different apps for tsumego.

Can some of you give advice on what to prefer as a start?

And, when using the book, should I try to solve the problem in my head or can I use a board?

As I post in the other thread, I'm having difficulties to see WHY a solution to a problem IS the solution, meaning, why does some pattern mean a group is dead (alive is a bit easier, though I find telling real eyes from false difficult).

I always try to play on after getting or looking up a solution, and since this can be many moves, I assume it is difficult to do this in my head.

Thanks!

[Uberdude]

Sounds like you are doing problems that are much too hard for you. Get some easier problems, maybe first volume of graded go problems for beginners. Also some beginner explanation material on false eyes would be good. Have you done http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/

[Bill Spight]

Hi

I am a complete beginner and I have one book and different apps for tsumego.

Can some of you give advice on what to prefer as a start?

Start with playing games. There are weak bots that can be fun to play with.

As I post in the other thread, I'm having difficulties to see WHY a solution to a problem IS the solution, meaning, why does some pattern mean a group is dead (alive is a bit easier, though I find telling real eyes from false difficult).

I agree with Uberdude, these problems are at the moment too difficult for you. That may not be so in a week or two, however, because beginners improve rapidly.

And, when using the book, should I try to solve the problem in my head or can I use a board?

Do both. You are, at this stage, like a baby learning a language. There will be plenty of things that you do not yet understand, but trying to understand them is a good thing to do. You will often be wrong, but getting the right answer is less important than working on the problem. So my suggestion is to give yourself a reasonable length of time, like 30 seconds, to try to find the answer, Then you can look it up. Segoe, a top player 100 years ago, suggested an intermediate stage where you set up the problem on a board and try to solve the problem by playing out variations. You may want to try that.

As I post in the other thread, I'm having difficulties to see WHY a solution to a problem IS the solution, meaning, why does some pattern mean a group is dead (alive is a bit easier, though I find telling real eyes from false difficult).

What you have in these cases are called status problems. What is the status of a group, dead, ko, seki, or independently alive? You have been told the answer, but you don't see why. So set up the solution diagram on the board, and test out the answer. If a group is supposed to be dead, try to make it live. If you succeed, then probably there was a way to kill that you missed. Try to find those moves. If a group is supposed to be alive, try to kill it. Again, finding the answer is less important than playing over the variations. Important note: If you judge your efforts by whether you solve the problem or not, you will be punishing yourself instead of rewarding yourself for your work. Even if you don't solve a problem, you will learn from making the attempt. And once you have made the effort, looking at the answer can also be a learning experience. Your attempts will be fresh in your mind and you can compare them with the solution.

Bonne chance!

[Jika]

Thank you all!

Get some easier problems, maybe first volume of graded go problems for beginners

I'll do that.
I think there is an SGF of it somewhere, or would you recommend using the book?

Have you done http://playgo.to/iwtg/en/

I thought I had... But, while I must have read the part on false eyes, I did not remember and was not able to solve them at first try!

Start with playing games. There are weak bots that can be fun to play with.

Where can I find those (web or Android)?

So my suggestion is to give yourself a reasonable length of time, like 30 seconds, to try to find the answer,

Uhm... I give myself like, three minutes... to make a wrong move then...

If a group is supposed to be dead, try to make it live.

I am really good at that...
Often, problems will say there will be a ko, and while I usually see it, the "dead" party lives nonetheless, e.g. escaping between the ko turns...

Again, finding the answer is less important than playing over the variations.

That's good advice.
I was trying to solve the problems (it's quite addictive, especially if there are a few with the same shape in a row), hoping to learn by that, and playing on after that to see why the group is dead, if the app allows so.
Do I get you right, that I should rather put the stones on my paper board and play both sides while trying to find the solution, and not let the app play the opposite party?

Thanks again!

[Bill Spight]

Start with playing games. There are weak bots that can be fun to play with.

Where can I find those (web or Android)?

I don't play against them, but if you go to a go server and ask around, you can probably find one. There are probably some that you can download and play against locally.

So my suggestion is to give yourself a reasonable length of time, like 30 seconds, to try to find the answer,

Uhm... I give myself like, three minutes... to make a wrong move then...

Unless you like doing that, IMO that is a waste of at least two minutes of time. When I was a kid trying to read magazines, I would ofter ask my mother what a word meant. That didn't keep me from learning English.

Again, finding the answer is less important than playing over the variations.

That's good advice.
I was trying to solve the problems (it's quite addictive, especially if there are a few with the same shape in a row), hoping to learn by that, and playing on after that to see why the group is dead, if the app allows so.
Do I get you right, that I should rather put the stones on my paper board and play both sides while trying to find the solution, and not let the app play the opposite party?

Either way can be valuable. Suit yourself.

[Joaz Banbeck]

Always have a board in front of you.

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).

[jlt]

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room.

Just don't play go while you are driving.

[sybob]

Some go servers to play online:
KGS: http://www.gokgs.com/ and download the client CGoban.
OGS: https://online-go.com/ No client program necessary, just play from your browser
IGS (Pandanet): https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet and download the client GoPanda2
Best to play on computer or laptop.

[Knotwilg]

Some beginner exercises:

https://senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnerExercises

You get the solution AND the reason why they work, i.e. a general pattern (called "tesuji")

[Jika]

Some go servers to play online:
KGS: http://www.gokgs.com/ and download the client CGoban.
OGS: https://online-go.com/ No client program necessary, just play from your browser
IGS (Pandanet): https://pandanet-igs.com/communities/pandanet and download the client GoPanda2
Best to play on computer or laptop.

I've had a look at their websites (wasn't able to see KGS without Java, any hints??), but did not realize it was possible to play bots there.
How can I find them or whom should I ask their?
Do they have moderators??

Always have a board in front of you.

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).

Wow.

Some beginner exercises:

https://senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnerExercises

You get the solution AND the reason why they work, i.e. a general pattern (called "tesuji")

Cool!! Thank you.
I'm finding it very difficult navigating the sensei website.
There seems to be a ton of useful stuff on there, but hard to find...?

Thank you all!

[Bill Spight]

Always have a board in front of you.

A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).

Wow.

You can even get toilet paper with tsumego problems printed on them.



Joaz is joshing, or he's really over the hill.

I haven't seen any tsumego toilet paper, but I have seen coasters with problems printed on them.

[sybob]

I've had a look at their websites (wasn't able to see KGS without Java, any hints??), but did not realize it was possible to play bots there.
How can I find them or whom should I ask their?
Do they have moderators??

Indeed, KGS or rather the KGS client program CGoban requires Java.
Should not be a problem, I hope?

At KGS, have look at the room list and select Computer Go. Most of the time, there are several bots online.
At IGS and OGS, just browse around and you'll find bots. The main room on IGS has many.
You need an account, probably, to use them. No need to contact admins/moderators.

[sybob]

Always have a board in front of you.
A serious go player realizes that he may need to consider an idea at any moment, so he has one in every room, even the bathroom (that's what vinyl boards are made for).

Wow.

I think the orginal comment was meant as a joke. No need to be impressed.

[Joaz Banbeck]

...
Joaz is joshing, or he's really over the hill...

The former. Although the two are not mutually exclusive.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9833&p=245244#p245244

[Jika]

@sybob:

Indeed, KGS or rather the KGS client program CGoban requires Java.
Should not be a problem, I hope?

Unfortunately it is:
I've spent some time looking this up, and the mighty web says that all browsers but IE11 have abandoned the Java plugin (as it is considered vulnerable).
Since I can't use IE (I'm on a Linux System, Ubuntu 16.04), I see no possibility of using KGS on their website.
Maybe I can set it up with a Go client (how?)?? (I do have qGo, did not understand CGoban)

I also tried GoGrinder, but I had to install Java (not the browser plugin), and I can't open GoGrinder.jar with the Java 8 or 9 environment.

I can play Pandanet/IGS and OGS (got slaughtered by amybot24k yesterday...), so this should suffice for starters.
But advice on KGS would be great!