Hello everyone. I finally decided to have a small journal for my notes.
I'm about 3d in strength on Fox and 2k on OGS. My main server is Fox.
I intend to share some interesting positions here or some snippets of shapes that I've learned.
All commentaries and questions are welcome.
お願いします
Breadcrumbs on the board
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jouseki
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Damezumari
In the recent game I've had a very interesting position, on which both me and my opponent spent 30 minutes total time reading things out.
I was black.
It started this way:
I've made a huge mistake of not pushing through white's stones in order to create the cutting points. I knew of this tesuji, but I blundered.
At this point, I was looking at playing either A or B. We can examine A first:
I have read about this far (it's one way street, so it's not that difficult) and figured out that I probably will not be able to win the semeai against neither A nor B nor C. So I quickly discarded this option.
As for B:
I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.
After I discarded both of these atari variations, I've started reading out some better tactical moves. The first instinct was to play the bamboo joint. This way I don't get 1 move behind by playing atari and connecting up.
There was an obvious shape problem for white's corner, so after this cut I thought I had the best chances to figure something out.
The game went this way:
At this point, my opponent has 3 candidate moves.
I figured, that if they choose A or B, I can extend at C and I will definitely be able to capture the cutting stones.
Let's look at this variation.
If white A, then black B and atari.
If white C, then black D and atari.
If white D, then black C, white can try getting out with two atari, but black eventually wins, because the liberty B will be empty.
However, my opponent has found the solution to that which I have completely missed in my reading. They have spent about 8 minutes reading this out.
The game went this way:
Now, my move at A wouldn't work, because my cutting stones are short on liberties. White can attach at B as a response and then get out with the bamboo joint regardless of what black does.
At this point, I thought that I have collapsed. I've spend 10 minutes reading out all of the possible variations, and there's a lot to consider.
First, there's this semeai. It's almost 1 way street until it comes to ko. In the game, I've read to move 14 and figured that I will probably not be able to win it. But in the post analysis I found out that black can indeed with in this position.
Next, there's this small semeai, but black doesn't have a good response to the cut. However, I still had to keep in mind that any defense I play to this cut will affect this semeai. Although I would probably need a bit more than just a defense to the cut.
And finally, there's these cutting stones. My first instinct was to play the jump, but following this sequence I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to prevent white from connecting. I've read about this far and discarded this variation, but after the game I realized, that it would be the same if not better than what happened in the game.
Eventually, I have settled for this position. At first, I couldn't find the refutation to this hane, but I was mainly reading out the cross cut at B. However, shortly after playing the move, I discovered the counter hane from white, that is A.
At this point I was convinced that I completely screwed it up.
As for the cross cut, my reading was as follows.
I've tried to make the following move work, but I couldn't find a way to defend both A and B here, so I quickly discarded this move.
Next, I found this ko. But for some reason, I decided that it would be too risky to play it. At the time I was convinced that I could settle the position without a ko.
And finally, I found this move. From here I was convinced that the crosscut wouldn't work for white.
In the game, white have found this counter hane move, which I have not read out at all.
My first instinct was to play the following variation. But at the end, it was clear that it would be impossible to contain white's stones for me.
In the post analysis I found out that Leela is ok with this variation, she just begins the corner semeai shortly as she's convinced that black can win it (and I have discarded this possibility earlier).
After about 5 minutes of reading, I was approaching byo-yomi. The following diagram is the farthest I could read, so it was my only hope.
At the very end, before deciding to play it out, I've tried to imagine how the semeai would go.
I noticed, that I have 2 inside liberties that white can't fill because they need to connect at A and B. However, I was pretty short on time, so I couldn't count the liberties properly.
This is also how the game went (accordingly to my reading):
White started the semeai and the game went as follows.
My opponent missed the fact that I have 2 extra liberties due to his weakness in shape, so white resigned here.
Had I not have those extra liberties, white would've won the semeai by 1 liberty exactly. I commend white for being able to read it out as well.
I had a lot of fun reading it. It was a roller coaster for me, but at the end I was about 70% sure that I would win the semeai, even with the extra liberties. Maybe I just got tired from reading everything out.
I was black.
It started this way:
I've made a huge mistake of not pushing through white's stones in order to create the cutting points. I knew of this tesuji, but I blundered.
At this point, I was looking at playing either A or B. We can examine A first:
I have read about this far (it's one way street, so it's not that difficult) and figured out that I probably will not be able to win the semeai against neither A nor B nor C. So I quickly discarded this option.
As for B:
I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.
After I discarded both of these atari variations, I've started reading out some better tactical moves. The first instinct was to play the bamboo joint. This way I don't get 1 move behind by playing atari and connecting up.
There was an obvious shape problem for white's corner, so after this cut I thought I had the best chances to figure something out.
The game went this way:
At this point, my opponent has 3 candidate moves.
I figured, that if they choose A or B, I can extend at C and I will definitely be able to capture the cutting stones.
Let's look at this variation.
If white A, then black B and atari.
If white C, then black D and atari.
If white D, then black C, white can try getting out with two atari, but black eventually wins, because the liberty B will be empty.
However, my opponent has found the solution to that which I have completely missed in my reading. They have spent about 8 minutes reading this out.
The game went this way:
Now, my move at A wouldn't work, because my cutting stones are short on liberties. White can attach at B as a response and then get out with the bamboo joint regardless of what black does.
At this point, I thought that I have collapsed. I've spend 10 minutes reading out all of the possible variations, and there's a lot to consider.
First, there's this semeai. It's almost 1 way street until it comes to ko. In the game, I've read to move 14 and figured that I will probably not be able to win it. But in the post analysis I found out that black can indeed with in this position.
Next, there's this small semeai, but black doesn't have a good response to the cut. However, I still had to keep in mind that any defense I play to this cut will affect this semeai. Although I would probably need a bit more than just a defense to the cut.
And finally, there's these cutting stones. My first instinct was to play the jump, but following this sequence I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to prevent white from connecting. I've read about this far and discarded this variation, but after the game I realized, that it would be the same if not better than what happened in the game.
Eventually, I have settled for this position. At first, I couldn't find the refutation to this hane, but I was mainly reading out the cross cut at B. However, shortly after playing the move, I discovered the counter hane from white, that is A.
At this point I was convinced that I completely screwed it up.
As for the cross cut, my reading was as follows.
I've tried to make the following move work, but I couldn't find a way to defend both A and B here, so I quickly discarded this move.
Next, I found this ko. But for some reason, I decided that it would be too risky to play it. At the time I was convinced that I could settle the position without a ko.
And finally, I found this move. From here I was convinced that the crosscut wouldn't work for white.
In the game, white have found this counter hane move, which I have not read out at all.
My first instinct was to play the following variation. But at the end, it was clear that it would be impossible to contain white's stones for me.
In the post analysis I found out that Leela is ok with this variation, she just begins the corner semeai shortly as she's convinced that black can win it (and I have discarded this possibility earlier).
After about 5 minutes of reading, I was approaching byo-yomi. The following diagram is the farthest I could read, so it was my only hope.
At the very end, before deciding to play it out, I've tried to imagine how the semeai would go.
I noticed, that I have 2 inside liberties that white can't fill because they need to connect at A and B. However, I was pretty short on time, so I couldn't count the liberties properly.
This is also how the game went (accordingly to my reading):
White started the semeai and the game went as follows.
My opponent missed the fact that I have 2 extra liberties due to his weakness in shape, so white resigned here.
Had I not have those extra liberties, white would've won the semeai by 1 liberty exactly. I commend white for being able to read it out as well.
I had a lot of fun reading it. It was a roller coaster for me, but at the end I was about 70% sure that I would win the semeai, even with the extra liberties. Maybe I just got tired from reading everything out.
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Uberdude
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Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Gosh, what a lot of reading! I rarely read that much, and I eat Fox 3ds for breakfast. So I think if you put even a fraction of that effort into all your moves, you'd easily win without getting into such dicey positions. In AI terms, maybe you need to improve your policy network more than your playouts depth. You already mentioned the not pushing through at h17 mistake, but also just before that if you played f18 at g18 then your 2 groups would be trivially connected so no scope for troubles like the game (f18 does hurt the top left corner more though so greed is nice if you can get away with it). Also in one variation at the end you said B doesn't work here.
It does, squeeze for ladder
jouseki wrote:
I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.
It does, squeeze for ladder
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jouseki
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Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Uberdude wrote:Gosh, what a lot of reading! I rarely read that much, and I eat Fox 3ds for breakfast. So I think if you put even a fraction of that effort into all your moves, you'd easily win without getting into such dicey positions. In AI terms, maybe you need to improve your policy network more than your playouts depth.
That's true. Reading is what I enjoy the most about the game, but sometimes I miss very obvious moves that should require 0 reading from me, and it leads to an eventual collapse.
At Fox 3d my regular game is where I lead by over 20 points, this is the buffer I need to make up for the blunder that I will eventually make. In my estimations, 20-25 points lead will become a -2.5 to +2.5 point game, something in that range.
But it is what it is. The only downside to it for me personally is that I never get to play "an even opponent" so to speak, but since my win/lose record keeps me at 3d, it probably means that I am 3d, so I don't really have an argument here.
Uberdude wrote:You already mentioned the not pushing through at h17 mistake, but also just before that if you played f18 at g18 then your 2 groups would be trivially connected so no scope for troubles like the game (f18 does hurt the top left corner more though so greed is nice if you can get away with it).
I don't remember exactly why I decided not to play the clamp. I also know of that tesuji, but I think I imagined that white would push up and connect somehow. Unfortunately I didn't give it a second thought and just played the sagari.
Uberdude wrote:Also in one variation at the end you said B doesn't work here.jouseki wrote:I couldn't find neither A or B working for me, so the atari variation is no longer possible in this branch.
It does, squeeze for ladder
Totally missed that one, thanks for the hint.
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jouseki
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Pricking stones
Just finished the game that I think could be the most indicative of how my games usually go. An iconic game you could say.
I'm very embarrassed for playing this way, but no matter what I try to do, I can't ever fix it.
Using age or external factors as an excuse I don't consider pleasant. Those are mistakes and they're all my mistakes, regardless of the exterior (level of concentration, mood, number of distractions, etc).
This was a game against a very iconic "asian" 7 kyu player. You can find them everywhere - tygem, fox, oro. The game itself was played on OGS.
Many people describe this style as aggressive, but in reality it's just the mindset that is aggressive - the moves themselves are usually daring, but also cherishing. If you play correctly against this style, you'll find the opponent helping you most of the time, rather than actually posing a threat.
The game started in a regular way with these opponents. Here was the first decision, between A (or keima) and B. Due to the existence of C I chose the former, but I'm not sure if the position would be good for me had white defended against C and I'd be forced to play B or maybe cap that stone.
Here another decision. I prefer picking B in positions like this just because I like territory. But on this board I also chose B because if anything I have stones at C to run forward, if it will be necessary.
Here yet another decision in which I chose the territorial one. The shape move is B and leela prefers B as well, but I like moves like A. With B I know that I reduce the liberties and ruin the shape, but I can't see where my profit will be from this situation.
I thought that if black pushes at B as a response, I'll extend and ruin his shape anyway, so if he defends elsewhere I should be up on territory after enclosing at C a bit later.
Leela disagrees with my decision, but unfortunately she can't speak, so I couldn't ask her why so.
This was my first major directional mistake I think. I chose to connect up the 2 stones with A, but the obviously right move was B. Regardless of whether or not I would be able to save B, just at least extending the cutting stones once would already be extremely good for black.
Leela agrees with that, she says that B is the only move.
At this point of the game, I'm extremely ahead, which is expected against a weaker opponent. However, this is where the pricking starts.
There goes the first move.
In this position I usually consider A or B. I thought that after playing A I should be able to hane at C if white pushes. After that, the shape is well known - white can't get anything better than the "straight J group" in the corner, which is ko.
The game went this way.
The opponent chose the J shape, which is unconditionally dead. I proceeded in "killing" it, but this is where the fun began.
After this cut, I missed the fact that I can push at A, let white take the stone and connect up with my group on the right side. This would've been a false eye and everything would've been just fine.
But I connected the stone, creating a semeai between my stones on the right side and white's J group.
I've made this exchange, which is fine, but here leela rates A as 70% for black and B as <50% for black. I could not read that far and I was convinced that I can get C in sente (sente part being a threat to connect up) even if white pushes at D first. This was my evaluation.
Unfortunately, I completely missed the fact that white's block could put me in atari. It only occurred to me when I connected against the first atari.
This was a very big loss. I checked the SE quickly and found out that I'm now behind by about 15 points.
I thought that it was still ok - I had a lot of favorable endgame, so I decided to give it a shot.
The game went as follows:
I was consumed by the endgame evaluations and didn't really give the last white's move a second thought.
My thought process after seeing this move was: defending 2 stones? That's probably small now. Could I even poke that elephant's eye? Anyway, looks like an inefficient local move.
So I played elsewhere and got cut.
There isn't much to say. I tried a few things and managed to cut white in sente in order to attempt for a capturing race, but it was obviously unwinnable.
And on this note, I lost to a 7 kyu.
I'm not sure how I can fix it. I'm having this kind of issue for a few years now and it prevents me from playing better players, and therefore, improving faster.
I think that my win rate against 4k-8k players is almost exactly the same - the stronger ones don't try to play "these hopeless kinda moves" and the weaker ones play them constantly and make me blunder.
I've gotten over irritation and depression regarding this topic, so I've kind of accepted it already. But it's still unpleasant to me that it doesn't go away naturally. Even as I get stronger at reading - I've improved my fighting drastically since a few years ago, and yet these blunders remain in my game.
As I mentioned in the previous post, they're so consistent that I plan my game around them in order to maximize the winning chances.
I probably won't be posting reviews of games like these here anymore, one is enough. They happen all the time and it's how Go is for me. So there's no point going over more than just one of them. About 90% of the time they're reading blunders, the other 10% is maybe worth going over sometimes.
I'm very embarrassed for playing this way, but no matter what I try to do, I can't ever fix it.
Using age or external factors as an excuse I don't consider pleasant. Those are mistakes and they're all my mistakes, regardless of the exterior (level of concentration, mood, number of distractions, etc).
This was a game against a very iconic "asian" 7 kyu player. You can find them everywhere - tygem, fox, oro. The game itself was played on OGS.
Many people describe this style as aggressive, but in reality it's just the mindset that is aggressive - the moves themselves are usually daring, but also cherishing. If you play correctly against this style, you'll find the opponent helping you most of the time, rather than actually posing a threat.
The game started in a regular way with these opponents. Here was the first decision, between A (or keima) and B. Due to the existence of C I chose the former, but I'm not sure if the position would be good for me had white defended against C and I'd be forced to play B or maybe cap that stone.
Here another decision. I prefer picking B in positions like this just because I like territory. But on this board I also chose B because if anything I have stones at C to run forward, if it will be necessary.
Here yet another decision in which I chose the territorial one. The shape move is B and leela prefers B as well, but I like moves like A. With B I know that I reduce the liberties and ruin the shape, but I can't see where my profit will be from this situation.
I thought that if black pushes at B as a response, I'll extend and ruin his shape anyway, so if he defends elsewhere I should be up on territory after enclosing at C a bit later.
Leela disagrees with my decision, but unfortunately she can't speak, so I couldn't ask her why so.
This was my first major directional mistake I think. I chose to connect up the 2 stones with A, but the obviously right move was B. Regardless of whether or not I would be able to save B, just at least extending the cutting stones once would already be extremely good for black.
Leela agrees with that, she says that B is the only move.
At this point of the game, I'm extremely ahead, which is expected against a weaker opponent. However, this is where the pricking starts.
There goes the first move.
In this position I usually consider A or B. I thought that after playing A I should be able to hane at C if white pushes. After that, the shape is well known - white can't get anything better than the "straight J group" in the corner, which is ko.
The game went this way.
The opponent chose the J shape, which is unconditionally dead. I proceeded in "killing" it, but this is where the fun began.
After this cut, I missed the fact that I can push at A, let white take the stone and connect up with my group on the right side. This would've been a false eye and everything would've been just fine.
But I connected the stone, creating a semeai between my stones on the right side and white's J group.
I've made this exchange, which is fine, but here leela rates A as 70% for black and B as <50% for black. I could not read that far and I was convinced that I can get C in sente (sente part being a threat to connect up) even if white pushes at D first. This was my evaluation.
Unfortunately, I completely missed the fact that white's block could put me in atari. It only occurred to me when I connected against the first atari.
This was a very big loss. I checked the SE quickly and found out that I'm now behind by about 15 points.
I thought that it was still ok - I had a lot of favorable endgame, so I decided to give it a shot.
The game went as follows:
I was consumed by the endgame evaluations and didn't really give the last white's move a second thought.
My thought process after seeing this move was: defending 2 stones? That's probably small now. Could I even poke that elephant's eye? Anyway, looks like an inefficient local move.
So I played elsewhere and got cut.
There isn't much to say. I tried a few things and managed to cut white in sente in order to attempt for a capturing race, but it was obviously unwinnable.
And on this note, I lost to a 7 kyu.
I'm not sure how I can fix it. I'm having this kind of issue for a few years now and it prevents me from playing better players, and therefore, improving faster.
I think that my win rate against 4k-8k players is almost exactly the same - the stronger ones don't try to play "these hopeless kinda moves" and the weaker ones play them constantly and make me blunder.
I've gotten over irritation and depression regarding this topic, so I've kind of accepted it already. But it's still unpleasant to me that it doesn't go away naturally. Even as I get stronger at reading - I've improved my fighting drastically since a few years ago, and yet these blunders remain in my game.
As I mentioned in the previous post, they're so consistent that I plan my game around them in order to maximize the winning chances.
I probably won't be posting reviews of games like these here anymore, one is enough. They happen all the time and it's how Go is for me. So there's no point going over more than just one of them. About 90% of the time they're reading blunders, the other 10% is maybe worth going over sometimes.
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moha
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Re: Pricking stones
Just a quick note: on the 2nd diagram I wouldn't even consider B in favor of A. B is just a dull low stone, helping a corner that is safe anyway, while A is important for safety for both.
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jouseki
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Re: Pricking stones
moha wrote:Just a quick note: on the 2nd diagram I wouldn't even consider B in favor of A. B is just a dull low stone, helping a corner that is safe anyway, while A is important for safety for both.
Interesting, why though?
My thinking, despite of what I've already said, is that white is 3rd line pincering a 4th line group, so with center being empty it's de facto safe already. So I counter attack by also taking points that I might potentially lose "beneath" this group.
It seems to be a reasonable strategy to me, it occurs often and I often prefer the pincer unless the center is crowded and unfavorable.
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dfan
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Re: Pricking stones
jouseki wrote:The game started in a regular way with these opponents. Here was the first decision, between A (or keima) and B. Due to the existence of C I chose the former, but I'm not sure if the position would be good for me had white defended against C and I'd be forced to play B or maybe cap that stone.
Did you consider c right away? (I don't know how good it is but it's my first instinct.)
Here another decision. I prefer picking B in positions like this just because I like territory. But on this board I also chose B because if anything I have stones at C to run forward, if it will be necessary.
Did you consider kicking? (Also my first instinct.) In any case, letting White burrow under your side group seems pretty bad while you are still fighting for a base.
After this cut, I missed the fact that I can push at A, let white take the stone and connect up with my group on the right side. This would've been a false eye and everything would've been just fine.
a is in fact my first instinct. I'm not sure what to say about this except that it is something you have to train yourself to look for instantly (as you know!). I train myself to do this by making flashcards with very simple problems that I should be able to solve on sight. There are some Japanese books with "ひと目" (literally, "at a glance", I think) in their titles that are good for this, like this one.
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moha
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Re: Pricking stones
I think it's just a matter of style, as I wrote B feels less urgent and I don't like leaving A for the opponent. I guess I'm not a territorial player. 
I'm not saying it's better or worse objectively (best would probably be tenuki anyway).
I'm not saying it's better or worse objectively (best would probably be tenuki anyway).-
jouseki
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Re: Pricking stones
dfan wrote:Did you consider c right away? (I don't know how good it is but it's my first instinct.)
Not really, because I know that C ends in gote for black all the time, unless white makes a mistake and keeps pushing.
After white gets sente, white can comfortably approach the corner. Having a 2 space extension already means that if black responds in the corner (kick or back off), white can take sente again.
This way white takes a complete control over the fuseki. Losing sente so many times is definitely bad.
dfan wrote:Did you consider kicking? (Also my first instinct.) In any case, letting White burrow under your side group seems pretty bad while you are still fighting for a base.
If I chose A, then I would probably contemplate between kicking and just "jumping down".
I don't like the kick that much when I'm attacking because it opens the possibility of hane under, which is always forcing in a position like this. But it depends. Maybe I'd kick here if I committed to preserving the base for this group.
You can see my previous response as to why I didn't choose defending the base.
dfan wrote:a is in fact my first instinct. I'm not sure what to say about this except that it is something you have to train yourself to look for instantly (as you know!). I train myself to do this by making flashcards with very simple problems that I should be able to solve on sight. There are some Japanese books with "ひと目" (literally, "at a glance", I think) in their titles that are good for this, like this one.
I will definitely check out those books.
What do you mean by flashcards? Do you use some tool for this? Did you compile your own collection or did you get it from somewhere?
moha wrote:I think it's just a matter of style, as I wrote B feels less urgent and I don't like leaving A for the opponent. I guess I'm not a territorial player.
Got it. By the way, I just checked the position with Leela, and she suggests a pincer too, but a different one. She suggests to play a keima jump to the side from the corner stone (northwest intersection from B)
I don't understand her suggestion though.
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moha
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Re: Pricking stones
On second thought I think it's mostly the "low stone near my other low stone" which makes B look dull to me. If the corner were higher it would feel very different.
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quantumf
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Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
Actually it was this diagram that really struck me. b (to me) feels like a complete no-brainer, I'd go so far as to call it a https://senseis.xmp.net/?Tennozan
You're right that the territorial benefits are not immediately obvious, but the control it helps you assert over the rest of the middle game battle will be massive. If white follows up with a, you are induced to play a corner move to secure your corner and leave white uncomfortable.
You're right that the territorial benefits are not immediately obvious, but the control it helps you assert over the rest of the middle game battle will be massive. If white follows up with a, you are induced to play a corner move to secure your corner and leave white uncomfortable.
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jouseki
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Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
quantumf wrote:Actually it was this diagram that really struck me. b (to me) feels like a complete no-brainer, I'd go so far as to call it a https://senseis.xmp.net/?Tennozan
I agree, maybe I overthought this one. Normally I'd bend without hesitation, but here I thought that white doesn't have a local move a response to which by black wouldn't hurt the other white stone, so I was kinda pushing white into making such move.
quantumf wrote:You're right that the territorial benefits are not immediately obvious, but the control it helps you assert over the rest of the middle game battle will be massive. If white follows up with a, you are induced to play a corner move to secure your corner and leave white uncomfortable.
As for this, I'm not very good at using influence when the opponent already got stones around it. For example, assuming the following scenario happens and white even hands me sente, I can't really tell whether I will be able to contain white's stone with A-D and whether I'll be able to eventually profit from it. But maybe on this board the bottom side has some potential for black, but it might mean giving white the bottom side, so it's hard for me to evaluate this.
Assume that white's top group is alive, I know that it needs a few more exchanges
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quantumf
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Re: Breadcrumbs on the board
In this position I would evaluate black as so far ahead that the game is already over. Containing the lone white stone would be pretty low on my list of priorities, I'd want to attack the group on the left and I'd also want to prevent the white group on top from bending and weakening my shape. Still, the lead is so massive, probably just about anything vaguely central and somewhat multipurpose would be enough to solidify the advantage.
Edit: having thought about it a bit more, this is not that instructive a position. Your lead is so gigantic that the previous choice of a or b is moot. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of following your instinct to bend.
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dfan
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Re: Pricking stones
I use the spaced repetition program Anki. One can cut and paste screen captures or try to do something more interactive, since Anki understands JavaScript. A friend helped me get set up with this code for interactive go problems but honestly I don't understand it that well. I make my own cards; I think it's pretty essential to do so for one's own understanding.jouseki wrote:I will definitely check out those books.dfan wrote:a is in fact my first instinct. I'm not sure what to say about this except that it is something you have to train yourself to look for instantly (as you know!). I train myself to do this by making flashcards with very simple problems that I should be able to solve on sight. There are some Japanese books with "ひと目" (literally, "at a glance", I think) in their titles that are good for this, like this one.
What do you mean by flashcards? Do you use some tool for this? Did you compile your own collection or did you get it from somewhere?