Yup, I agree that adding rules to client makes cheating easier. Though, cheating is already possible on client side via computer assistance.

Anyway, what’s your idea for a smart server that addresses the lag problem?

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be immersed

It seems like you could easily have the client send a timestamp along with the move, not as a replacement for allowing the server time to be definitive, but as a way to offer the player feedback about the health of their connection. You could even quietly allow some very limited number of "grace" moves played late without affecting 99% of matches, and I don't think that's a policy that would be likely to be abused. I mean, it's certainly no worse than "pausing" a game by escaping and then immediately coming back to it to resume, and I don't think that I've ever had someone do that on KGS.

At the very least, if you recorded client vs server timestamp data a third party who had to make a decision about how to handle a claim of lag in an important match would have better data to do so.

After doing some research, I believe Kim Myungwan's final decision, although unfair to Mateusz and not in the "spirit of the game", is in fact, the correct decision, given the difficulty of the situation and the details of what had transpired. I still believe that Eric should have come out to resign the game in order to save the tournament from controversy, but again, it may be an unfair burden to Eric.

I also want to reference the rules here from chess.com's speed chess tournament with a prize of 10000 USD, a tournament with similar stakes and where the time control is even more important:

"No mouseslips or takebacks. There will be no rulings made to allow for "mouseslips," "takebacks" or the reversal of any move or result that happens due to loss on time because of "lagging connections," disconnections or any other online-chess-specific glitches that may occur. The player is acknowledging to be comfortable with Chess.com's online board and piece play format, and guaranteeing his/her own stable connection.

Accidental draw offers, resignations, or losses by flag via disconnection will count and the result will not be reversed. Any game results incurred due to user error by the player with the Chess.com board, pieces, buttons, or any other part of the interface are final, including but not limited to draw offers, draw acceptance, resignations, premoves, autoqueen, accidental underpromotion, any and all mouseslips, accidental clicks, or accidentally losing on time. Players are responsible for being familiar with the Chess.com interface."

Had the organizers written down such tournament rules or conditions of contest, there would have been no controversy. They are currently drafting at least temporary rules for the rest of this tournament, which should satisfy all concerned.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

If you have to rule out a resumption because you were not there to administer it, then it is difficult to see how a referee could place the adjective correct in any subsequent decision they make.

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North Lecale

Fortunately, that is not necessary.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

In the menu File > Server stats, a "Response Time" is indicated. I wonder if its variations are slow enough to predict lag problems?

Actually, that make much sense in the chess.com tournament, because a single match is played in 3 hours over ~30 games. That's it, a match has about the same duration than in our tournament, but each individual game is much (much) shorter.

And as you said, time control is much much more impactfull.

I notice the new rules have been posted on https://transatlanticgo.org/.

Next match is on Sunday!

and on OGS rather than KGS

I wonder what made them switch to OGS. I imagine it was the lag. Can players use the score estimator during the game.
On an important note though, it is good to see that they have updated the rules to something practical.

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North Lecale

So they've decided to use the proctor/local referee to avoid lag causing a loss on time in the final byo-yomi period, but that lag can cause loss of prior byo-yomi periods. OGS has the following 'feature': when lag or potentially other issues prevent successful submission of your move a message pops up "Error Submitting Move". This blocks user interaction with the board so you cannot attempt to play again, even if your network connection has recovered. It used to be that the user had to then manually refresh the page, which for me would often take between 30 seconds and a minute (when playing on my phone, I think it reloads lots of heavy javascript libraries), but in the last year or so OGS has changed that after this error message it forces a page refresh. So if this "Error Submitting Move" detector is over eager it can easily cause loss of byo-yomi periods.

Also, the facebook post has a-d not a-c:


So if Ali tells them there is a non-zero possibility of lag what next? He should go play in his local university with a beefy connection instead of at home? Or simply stating this fact earns him more lenient treatment in the case of lag?

I have had the same annoying experience with OGS when it was having a major lag session. Refresh often just meant I saw a loss on time pop up. Recently it didn't see anything like that, so I kind of assumed that they had fixed that killer feature.

How will they handle the big issue of guests logging in with handles like AtariAtO5 ?

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North Lecale

On reflection rule (b) does look a bit comical. Ali will presumably still be in Amsterdam for the match, let's hope the connection there is reasonable, and that he hasn't been on a bender after the tournament.

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North Lecale

Facebook a, c, d have become a, b, c on the website, while facebook b is in the "requirements" paragraph of the website.

OGS also has a rather confusing user interface for the clock in byo-yomi if you are used to other servers. On KGS "0:45 (5)" means you have 45 seconds left and 5 byo-yomi periods remaining, wait a minute and it'll say "0:45 (4)", another minute to "0:45 (3)", then "0:45 (2)", then "0:45 SD", then you lose 45 seconds later if you didn't play in time, or it goes back up to 1:00 SD if you play in time. On OGS the equivalent clock display is "0:45 + 5 x 60s", then "0:45 + 4 x 60s", then "0:45 + 3 x 60s", then "0:45 + 2 x 60s", then "0:45 + 1 x 60s" then 45 seconds later you lose. My initial understanding of that final display is that I have 45 seconds and one more 60 seconds period remaining after that if I take more than 45 seconds (because I read it like maths: 45 + 1 x 60 = 45 + (1x60) = 105 total time remaining, it's the plus sign that's misleading), but you don't, The OGS display is in some ways more logical because the KGS one doesn't distinguish between 45 seconds left of absolute time and 45 seconds left with 1 renewable byo-yomi period, but it's quite a dangerous gotcha that I hope both players are aware of. Is it the player's responsibility or the organisers to ensure this is understood?

P.S. I like Fox's display, in final byo-yomi it says "Byo-yomi 1x, 0:45" and then elsewhere on the screen has the game settings "6.5 komi, 1 hour, 5 x 1 min".

P.P.S I'm wondering should I send Ali a message about this, or does that actually hurt his winning chances: in the event he times out because he is misled by the confusing clock he could no longer claim ignorance and, echoing the Mateusz ruling, that means he accepts the bad conditions. But if Eric loses on time because of a confusing clock he can claim he didn't know about the bad user interface and therefore should get a rematch. So if I want Ali to win I should tell Eric, ignorance is bliss!

A competent organizer would make this known to the players.



I would send a message to the organizers or the referee. We do not want another incident, which might sink this tournament.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Bit of an upset in the Amsterdam tournament running at the moment.

Ali Jabarin lost to Stephen Hu, 5 dan, in the second round.


Lets hope it doesnt affect his confidence for sunday

Stephen puts on such a good show of being slightly befuddled during his broadcasts that I forget he is actually a pretty good player.

Schedule of Amsterdam tournament:



If Ali is playing in those 2 rounds he's going to be tired and not in a good condition to play another gruelling game at 8pm