moha wrote:
The strong point of Japanese is that [...] you can have a ruleset with only simple basic rules that already allows play - up to the first stop.
This is a strong point not only of Japanese rules or only territory scoring rules but of all rules.
Quote:
Most importantly, the normal ko rule works.
1) If you mean that the effect of the basic ko rule applies, this is so for all rules.
2) If you mean that the basic ko rule would cover all kos, you are wrong.
Quote:
The price of this is that you need extra rules AFTER the stop, i.e. about L&D.
The price of not having (1)? Since (1) applies for all rules, there is no price.
The price of not having (2)? Since (2) is wrong also for Japanese rules or territory scoring, your point is void.
Quote:
The Chinese approach eliminates L&D,
It should. Well designed area scoring rules eliminate L+D. The Chinese Rules do not.
Quote:
normal ko (forbidding immediate recapture, i.e. a time-wise restriction) doesn't work anymore.
See above.
Quote:
You inevitably need some ko rules trickery, even in the main game.
It depends on what you call trickery. If you call the practical application of superko trickery, you must call that of any ko ruleset trickery because any requires detection whether repetition occurs / has occurred / is about to occur.
Area scoring does NOT require superko. There are alternative ko rulsets, such as the Basic-Fixed-Ko-Rules.
Quote:
And the moment you start to fiddle with the ko rule
See above. Each ko ruleset needs detection whether repetition occurs.
Quote:
to fix a known problem,
What problem?
Quote:
you usually end up with introducing a new problem elsewhere.
Bad rules design is not mandatory.
Quote:
Since disputes are rare
You make the assumption that one should not talk about the problems of applying territory scoring rules in each game. Their correct application creates disputes in each game. Only the informal, implicit agreement NOT TO APPLY THE RULES STRICTLY avoids disputes in each game.
moha wrote:
The strong point of Japanese is that [...] you can have a ruleset with only simple basic rules that already allows play - up to the first stop.
This is a strong point not only of Japanese rules or only territory scoring rules but of all rules.
Quote:
Most importantly, the normal ko rule works.
1) If you mean that the effect of the basic ko rule applies, this is so for all rules.
2) If you mean that the basic ko rule would cover all kos, you are wrong.
Quote:
The price of this is that you need extra rules AFTER the stop, i.e. about L&D.
The price of not having (1)? Since (1) applies for all rules, there is no price.
The price of not having (2)? Since (2) is wrong also for Japanese rules or territory scoring, your point is void.
Quote:
The Chinese approach eliminates L&D,
It should. Well designed area scoring rules eliminate L+D. The Chinese Rules do not.
Quote:
normal ko (forbidding immediate recapture, i.e. a time-wise restriction) doesn't work anymore.
See above.
Quote:
You inevitably need some ko rules trickery, even in the main game.
It depends on what you call trickery. If you call the practical application of superko trickery, you must call that of any ko ruleset trickery because any requires detection whether repetition occurs / has occurred / is about to occur.
Area scoring does NOT require superko. There are alternative ko rulsets, such as the Basic-Fixed-Ko-Rules.
Quote:
And the moment you start to fiddle with the ko rule
See above. Each ko ruleset needs detection whether repetition occurs.
Quote:
to fix a known problem,
What problem?
Quote:
you usually end up with introducing a new problem elsewhere.
Bad rules design is not mandatory.
Quote:
Since disputes are rare
You make the assumption that one should not talk about the problems of applying territory scoring rules in each game. Their correct application creates disputes in each game. Only the informal, implicit agreement NOT TO APPLY THE RULES STRICTLY avoids disputes in each game.
Quote:
All anomalies are rare
Except for the systematic anomalies occurring in each territory scoring game.
Quote:
you either have flawless rules with no anomalies (like chess)
Or like go with carefully written area scoring rules.