DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intelligence

General conversations about Go belong here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Joaz Banbeck
Judan
Posts: 5546
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:30 am
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Location: Banbeck Vale
Has thanked: 1080 times
Been thanked: 1434 times

DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intelligence

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Wired magazine has an article on the cost of AI to play games - particularly Go - and what that suggests for the future.
Wired magazine wrote: DeepMind, likely the world’s largest research-focused artificial intelligence operation, is losing a lot of money fast, more than $1 billion in the past three years. DeepMind also has more than $1 billion in debt due in the next 12 months.
The writer notes that current AIs are very good at functioning within precisely defined domains, but seem unable to generalize sufficiently to transfer their skills to other domains:
Wired magazine wrote: What works for Go may not work for the challenging problems that DeepMind aspires to solve with AI, like cancer and clean energy. IBM learned this the hard way when it tried to take the Watson program that won Jeopardy! and apply it to medical diagnosis, with little success. Watson worked fine on some cases and failed on others, sometimes missing diagnoses like heart attacks that would be obvious to first-year medical students.
https://www.wired.com/story/deepminds-l ... elligence/
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
RobertJasiek
Judan
Posts: 6273
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:54 pm
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 797 times
Contact:

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by RobertJasiek »

Fun citation from that webpage: "Go—neither the board nor the rules have changed in 2,000 years". Uhm.

Other fields may have AI difficulties in particular because

- the fields are more complex or complicated in their description than go,

- errors in AI go might occur but so far it seems only for rare positions (e.g. highly multiple kos) irrelevant in playing practice; errors in other fields might occur more easily or have more dramatic consequences (such as killing human beings).

The complexity will be overcome to the extent of letting AI learn like a human being during his life and then beyond. However, all errors can never be avoided because of extreme decision complexity.
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by Bill Spight »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Wired magazine has an article on the cost of AI to play games - particularly Go - and what that suggests for the future.
Wired magazine wrote: DeepMind, likely the world’s largest research-focused artificial intelligence operation, is losing a lot of money fast, more than $1 billion in the past three years. DeepMind also has more than $1 billion in debt due in the next 12 months.
The writer notes that current AIs are very good at functioning within precisely defined domains, but seem unable to generalize sufficiently to transfer their skills to other domains:
I hope they are good at printing money. :mrgreen:
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
dfan
Gosei
Posts: 1599
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:49 am
Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Has thanked: 891 times
Been thanked: 534 times
Contact:

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by dfan »

It's worth noting that the author, Gary Marcus, is pretty much the world's preëminent deep learning skeptic. I started reading the article and wondered when the inevitable quote from Gary Marcus was going to show up... and then saw that the article was written by Gary Marcus. Anyway, he's a smart and knowledgeable guy, but he has a definite agenda, so if you want a balanced appraisal of the current state of deep learning, you may want to read some other articles as well.
sorin
Lives in gote
Posts: 389
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:14 pm
Has thanked: 418 times
Been thanked: 198 times

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by sorin »

dfan wrote:It's worth noting that the author, Gary Marcus, is pretty much the world's preëminent deep learning skeptic. I started reading the article and wondered when the inevitable quote from Gary Marcus was going to show up... and then saw that the article was written by Gary Marcus. Anyway, he's a smart and knowledgeable guy, but he has a definite agenda, so if you want a balanced appraisal of the current state of deep learning, you may want to read some other articles as well.
As far as I understand, his skepticism is about whether the current approaches in Deep / Reinforcement Learning have anything to do with "real AI" or not.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

Researchers in machine learning now often ask, “How can machines optimize complex problems using massive amounts of data?” We might also ask, “How do children acquire language and come to understand the world, using less power and data than current AI systems do?” If we spent more time, money, and energy on the latter question than the former, we might get to artificial general intelligence a lot sooner.
Or not. That's a huge if. Besides, what's wrong with asking both questions and others concurrently ? ( He mentioned limited resources as one argument, which is kind of a given. ) I thought some folks ( at IBM? ) have been researching to simulate a small brain ( like a mouse's ) already. People are working hard, on multiple fronts.
preëminent
diaeresis :batman:
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by Bill Spight »

sorin wrote:
dfan wrote:It's worth noting that the author, Gary Marcus, is pretty much the world's preëminent deep learning skeptic. I started reading the article and wondered when the inevitable quote from Gary Marcus was going to show up... and then saw that the article was written by Gary Marcus. Anyway, he's a smart and knowledgeable guy, but he has a definite agenda, so if you want a balanced appraisal of the current state of deep learning, you may want to read some other articles as well.
As far as I understand, his skepticism is about whether the current approaches in Deep / Reinforcement Learning have anything to do with "real AI" or not.
The search for intelligent life on earth. :lol:
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
User avatar
EdLee
Honinbo
Posts: 8859
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
GD Posts: 312
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Has thanked: 349 times
Been thanked: 2070 times

Post by EdLee »

The search for intelligent life on earth. :lol:
Not holding my breath. :blackeye:
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re:

Post by Bill Spight »

EdLee wrote:
The search for intelligent life on earth. :lol:
Not holding my breath. :blackeye:
I have to go to the clinic for diaresis today. ;)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
User avatar
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by Knotwilg »

If the goal is to make money, the researchers better emulate man's capacity for taking investor capital to a level where it's too big to fail, than man's intelligence.
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: DeepMind's Losses and the Future of Artificial Intellige

Post by jlt »

I imagine the next financial crisis due to AlphaStockMarketZero getting crazy...
Post Reply