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 Post subject: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #1 Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 7:30 am 
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Hello!

I am going to use this topic to upload some of my games.

For starters, here is one game I have played today.



Thanks in advance to those who will help me find and correct my biggest mistakes :)


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #2 Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 8:16 am 
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Here are a few remarks.

:b19: is better at O8. You have too many cutting points, you need to repair your shape.

:b27: what did you expect??

:b57: is inconsistent with your cut C15.

:b75: and :b77: invite your opponent to give you bad shape: ripped keima and ripped tobi.

Move 137 invites your opponent to cut through the elephant jump and give you bad shape.

Move 173 is not needed.

Move 193: why not play a ko threat?


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #3 Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 9:42 am 
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jlt wrote:
Here are a few remarks.

:b19: is better at O8. You have too many cutting points, you need to repair your shape.

:b27: what did you expect??

:b57: is inconsistent with your cut C15.

:b75: and :b77: invite your opponent to give you bad shape: ripped keima and ripped tobi.

Move 137 invites your opponent to cut through the elephant jump and give you bad shape.

Move 173 is not needed.

Move 193: why not play a ko threat?


Thanks for the tips!
:b27: is a 300 IQ move: just a trick play trying to scare him and make him respond several times there while I tenuki.

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #4 Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 10:52 am 
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Oh, I see. I am short of 5 IQ points, that's why my understanding is limited.


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #5 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:44 am 
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jlt wrote:
Oh, I see. I am short of 5 IQ points, that's why my understanding is limited.


Hahah!
As for the ko threat, you're right, I have no idea why I didn't play it. A ko is the best I can achieve with this invasion, right ? Not possible to kill?

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #6 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:13 am 
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Here is a correspondence game that I have finished yesterday. I have used a ko to live this time, but according to AI I won only because the opponent didn't choose the right reply.



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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #7 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:50 am 
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Hi, some opinions : )

:b14: descending down to P19 is a free sente move. I'd take that before defending.

:b20: aproaching in general is good but this side feels not big because Black has an open skirt (White S14 can always crawl along). I'd play 3*3. I like tenuki-ing White K15, though : )

:b22: again 3*3 - where do you want to make points here?

:b24: Good - White should have defended that side.

:b26: Descending down to O3 would be simple and good. This move feels a bit overplay-ish. Black has cutting points all over and I think when White plays Q5 they start to show.

:b28: Risky.

:b40: First: that result is very bad for Black. You could have entered 3*3 before and lived with more points, without sacrificing stones and without giving White so many stones on the outside - radiating over the whole board. Second: Black is not even alive.

:b46: Unsure, I'd start the ko immeadiately. If White just plays P4 now, your three stones are bound to be attacked without much worry for White.

:b60: Just fyi: White could enter 3*3 now and live - this double large knight moves extension is therefore rarely played. D17 is a solid corner shape.

Congrats on exploiting the ko, though a bit lucky ; )

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #8 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:31 am 
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SoDesuNe wrote:
Hi, some opinions : )

:b14: descending down to P19 is a free sente move. I'd take that before defending.

:b20: aproaching in general is good but this side feels not big because Black has an open skirt (White S14 can always crawl along). I'd play 3*3. I like tenuki-ing White K15, though : )

:b22: again 3*3 - where do you want to make points here?

:b24: Good - White should have defended that side.

:b26: Descending down to O3 would be simple and good. This move feels a bit overplay-ish. Black has cutting points all over and I think when White plays Q5 they start to show.

:b28: Risky.

:b40: First: that result is very bad for Black. You could have entered 3*3 before and lived with more points, without sacrificing stones and without giving White so many stones on the outside - radiating over the whole board. Second: Black is not even alive.

:b46: Unsure, I'd start the ko immeadiately. If White just plays P4 now, your three stones are bound to be attacked without much worry for White.

:b60: Just fyi: White could enter 3*3 now and live - this double large knight moves extension is therefore rarely played. D17 is a solid corner shape.

Congrats on exploiting the ko, though a bit lucky ; )



Thanks a lot for the tips and encouragements! Gonna pay more attention to invading corners and protecting mine.

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #9 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:44 am 
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Triton wrote:
As for the ko threat, you're right, I have no idea why I didn't play it. A ko is the best I can achieve with this invasion, right ? Not possible to kill?


At move 185, you could have played at S16. If for instance White responds with S17, you can kill with P19 (see the second L+1-group).

As for your second game, just a remark on the joseki on the top right. :b14: should be at O17. This protects against the clamp O18, moreover White no longer has a sente move at P19. You don't have to be afraid of the cut Q15, if White cuts at Q15 then you can atari P15, White extends Q14, then Black makes a geta with P13.


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #10 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 3:48 am 
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SoDesuNe wrote:

:b60: Just fyi: White could enter 3*3 now and live - this double large knight moves extension is therefore rarely played. D17 is a solid corner shape.



About this, I'm trying to see on an empty board how white can live but I'm not finding it. According to jlt I could have killed the invasion in the previous game (or maybe it was only because the opponent made a mistake?)

jlt wrote:
Triton wrote:
As for the ko threat, you're right, I have no idea why I didn't play it. A ko is the best I can achieve with this invasion, right ? Not possible to kill?


At move 185, you could have played at S16. If for instance White responds with S17, you can kill with P19 (see the second L+1-group).

As for your second game, just a remark on the joseki on the top right. :b14: should be at O17. This protects against the clamp O18, moreover White no longer has a sente move at P19. You don't have to be afraid of the cut Q15, if White cuts at Q15 then you can atari P15, White extends Q14, then Black makes a geta with P13.


Thanks for the tips!

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #11 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:14 am 
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You can check invasion sequences here:

http://josekipedia.com/

(look at the invasion of a large shimari and of a double large shimari).

In general the invader can at least get a ko, but the result depends on the surroundings.


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #12 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:53 am 
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jlt wrote:
You can check invasion sequences here:

http://josekipedia.com/

(look at the invasion of a large shimari and of a double large shimari).

In general the invader can at least get a ko, but the result depends on the surroundings.


Ah thanks, I knew this site for the joseki of the start of the game, but not that there are also all kinds of different positions.

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #13 Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:46 am 
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SoDesuNe wrote:
Hi, some opinions : )

:b14: descending down to P19 is a free sente move. I'd take that before defending.

I wouldn't. It feels like a wasted Ko threat/wasted aji.

And a tip for Triton in this context of first line moves: I would recommend to make a solid connection on the second line your default option to protect your stone/make a connection, instead of the first line descend.

So this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -------------------------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . O X Y . .
$$ - . O . O X . .
$$ - . . . O X . .
$$ - . . . O X . .
$$ - . . . O X . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]


instead of this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -------------------------------
$$ - . . . Y . . .
$$ - . . O X . . .
$$ - . O . O X . .
$$ - . . . O X . .
$$ - . . . O X . .
$$ - . . . O X . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

Of course, both the first line descend and tha various hanging connections all have their uses, both the solid one is, well, the most solid and thus can work as the default option.


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #14 Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 1:36 pm 
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Hi guys.

Here is a game I recently lost. I did some obvious and dumb mistakes, but generally the game felt very messy and I was kind of overwhelmed.

Looking forwards to your advice! Cheers



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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #15 Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 2:43 pm 
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Here are a few ideas.

:b9: takes some points in the corner, but is not urgent (because your two stones can extend in one or another direction) and doesn't threaten any white group, so it is better to play a bigger point: C6 (approach a corner) or C14 (enclose a corner) for instance.

:b25: is better at C18.

:b75: why do you want to take that stone? It is not big. You are attacking a group, what is your strategy? How do you want to profit from the attack? One way would be to enclose the group with M10. Hopefully White will live in gote and you will get a wall. That wall may help you later, either to build a moyo on the top, or to support an invasion around B12.

:b93: It is not very useful to struggle here. White is almost alive now, and you won't make a lot of profit on the bottom. The top is bigger, you can try to make points there. Or you can invade around B12.

Move 109: this invasion is almost hopeless because White is very strong around. I understand that you have to try something as you are behind. At move 115, you can try B8 instead of the solid connection. With that kind of shape, you can often get at least a ko (if White A10 then Black A9). I don't think it works but since you are behind you can try.

Move 143: your last hope is to kill the white group. I am not sure it is possible, but in general, playing at the third line (H17) is more efficient than the fourth line because it removes your opponent's base. If you play on the fourth line, the opponent can slide underneath.

Move 170: White is alive, game over.


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #16 Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:36 pm 
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Analysis per move
your opening looks fairly high level, which is not unusual for relative beginners;
- 21-25 is not ideal, but it's not a major loss;
- a move like 41 suggests you have learned with or from bots, or people who have done so
you struggle more in the middle game, which is also common for studious beginners
- 51 is the right idea but the wrong technique
- 61 is a very good move and shows the right idea and the right technique
- 75 however loses sight of the real goal: you're taking piecemeal while you should attack wholesale
- 81 and 85 show signs of despair: "attacking" a group by attaching to it, close to your own strength ...
- 89: back to form with an "eye stealing tesuji", attacking the weakest group; nice!
- but in the next moves you just answer where the opponent plays, instead of following up on your plan
- 105 is worth -2 or worse, probably you saw something that looked like a throw-in but it wasn't there; this tells me you were probably playing very fast at that point
- 107 & 109 show you realize you are behind and you need to do something about that big area to come back in the game; the plan looks unreasonable but it's a plan
- 119 & 121 show a new plan: "if I can't destroy, I'll build"; again, not bad thinking
- but then 135 & 137, led astray by White's defenses, lose sight again of the job to kill white's invasion of your top
- 141 & 143: back to the plan! good
- 169: after a long battle, White is allowed to live with 70
- 171: you take your final chance to attack White's last weakish group; again, killing it is not really possible but it's your best shot
- 179: stops trying
- 194: White destroys all hope to do something here and the game is over at "your level"

In summary, as far as this game is representative

Upside:
- good opening
- good ideas in the middle game; there's often a plan going on
- fighting spirit, though fluctuating
- intuition for shape is not bad

To improve
- in close combat, your technique deteriorates
- try to follow through; your plans erupt and die down; you lose sight of the plan and abandon it prematurely
- try to combine your plans; find moves that do two things; e.g. build while attacking
- evaluate if you really have to play where the opponent just played
- aren't you playing too fast?

Enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #17 Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:22 am 
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jlt wrote:
Here are a few ideas.

:b9: takes some points in the corner, but is not urgent (because your two stones can extend in one or another direction) and doesn't threaten any white group, so it is better to play a bigger point: C6 (approach a corner) or C14 (enclose a corner) for instance.

:b25: is better at C18.

:b75: why do you want to take that stone? It is not big. You are attacking a group, what is your strategy? How do you want to profit from the attack? One way would be to enclose the group with M10. Hopefully White will live in gote and you will get a wall. That wall may help you later, either to build a moyo on the top, or to support an invasion around B12.

:b93: It is not very useful to struggle here. White is almost alive now, and you won't make a lot of profit on the bottom. The top is bigger, you can try to make points there. Or you can invade around B12.

Move 109: this invasion is almost hopeless because White is very strong around. I understand that you have to try something as you are behind. At move 115, you can try B8 instead of the solid connection. With that kind of shape, you can often get at least a ko (if White A10 then Black A9). I don't think it works but since you are behind you can try.

Move 143: your last hope is to kill the white group. I am not sure it is possible, but in general, playing at the third line (H17) is more efficient than the fourth line because it removes your opponent's base. If you play on the fourth line, the opponent can slide underneath.

Move 170: White is alive, game over.



Knotwilg wrote:
Analysis per move
your opening looks fairly high level, which is not unusual for relative beginners;
- 21-25 is not ideal, but it's not a major loss;
- a move like 41 suggests you have learned with or from bots, or people who have done so
you struggle more in the middle game, which is also common for studious beginners
- 51 is the right idea but the wrong technique
- 61 is a very good move and shows the right idea and the right technique
- 75 however loses sight of the real goal: you're taking piecemeal while you should attack wholesale
- 81 and 85 show signs of despair: "attacking" a group by attaching to it, close to your own strength ...
- 89: back to form with an "eye stealing tesuji", attacking the weakest group; nice!
- but in the next moves you just answer where the opponent plays, instead of following up on your plan
- 105 is worth -2 or worse, probably you saw something that looked like a throw-in but it wasn't there; this tells me you were probably playing very fast at that point
- 107 & 109 show you realize you are behind and you need to do something about that big area to come back in the game; the plan looks unreasonable but it's a plan
- 119 & 121 show a new plan: "if I can't destroy, I'll build"; again, not bad thinking
- but then 135 & 137, led astray by White's defenses, lose sight again of the job to kill white's invasion of your top
- 141 & 143: back to the plan! good
- 169: after a long battle, White is allowed to live with 70
- 171: you take your final chance to attack White's last weakish group; again, killing it is not really possible but it's your best shot
- 179: stops trying
- 194: White destroys all hope to do something here and the game is over at "your level"

In summary, as far as this game is representative

Upside:
- good opening
- good ideas in the middle game; there's often a plan going on
- fighting spirit, though fluctuating
- intuition for shape is not bad

To improve
- in close combat, your technique deteriorates
- try to follow through; your plans erupt and die down; you lose sight of the plan and abandon it prematurely
- try to combine your plans; find moves that do two things; e.g. build while attacking
- evaluate if you really have to play where the opponent just played
- aren't you playing too fast?

Enjoy!


Thanks a lot for your advice guys. I really appreciate it, thanks for your time.
I'm ashamed to say that it was a correspondance game. So if I indeed played fast sometimes, it's entirely my own fault, and not time pressure.

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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #18 Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:46 am 
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For comparison, here is a live game that I just played. It is much messier and I have made obvious mistakes as well. I still won but I feel I should have done better.



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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #19 Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:59 am 
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Triton wrote:
For comparison, here is a live game that I just played. It is much messier and I have made obvious mistakes as well. I still won but I feel I should have done better.



A massacre!

The kill in the bottom left was supreme! What do you think could have been better?


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 Post subject: Re: My games, mid DDK - feel free to chime in :)
Post #20 Posted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:57 pm 
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Knotwilg wrote:
Triton wrote:
For comparison, here is a live game that I just played. It is much messier and I have made obvious mistakes as well. I still won but I feel I should have done better.



A massacre!

The kill in the bottom left was supreme! What do you think could have been better?


Thanks, that's nice to read :)
Some remarks on my side:
- 77 is a misclick. I wanted to play G8. I need to be more careful about that.
- 103, I don't think I needed to play this move but it just felt safer.
- The death of my stones on the lower right was avoidable and I should have seen it.
- 195, I wonder if I could have killed or hurt that group more. Not sure at all about this move.
- 223 and 225, I didn't need to play there I think.

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