Japanese Title and League scene

[botija]

In Wbaduk, (aka Orobaduk?) there are lots of live games. In the Japan server games stay long after they finished and the big games even have live analysis by pros (in Japanese).
I have found that the Meijin was streaming yesterday live in YouTube also. And BadukTV is live on YouTube (in Korean).
In English there are some pros streaming on Twitch (eg Biba) and some non live analysis on YouTube by Redmond and others)

[Shenoute]

Are there spots with lively (English) discussion on the games/series as well? It's one thing to see the games live, but that misses some of the context around the games -- tournament structure, player history, etc. The colour commentary?

Thanks!

Not that I know of but I'm a bit out of the loop. https://gotoeveryone.k2ss.info/ is good to get kifus and title matches' schedules/results but there is no commentary. Posting here at the start of a match might generate some discussion (I tried it for the 73rd Honinbo but I'm not really good at creating lively threads). Another idea might be to clone the game in KGS.

In Wbaduk (...)

I had forgotten about them, thanks! I have an account but haven't used it in a long time because the client crashed at the end of each game. Has it been solved?

[botija]

In Wbaduk (...)I had forgotten about them, thanks! I have an account but haven't used it in a long time because the client crashed at the end of each game. Has it been solved?

Well... I have to change servers twice to log in in the pc client and the Android app crashes now and then, but it mostly works.

BTW, is there a mobile friendly version of this forum? Can't get around and it's quite hard to read.

Just to keep on topic, the live Meijin streaming was quite interesting. Not that ten hours of almost nothing in Japanese is exciting, but you can get to feel that Kawabata like atmosphere for the game. Maybe Japan lost the top playing on the board but those rituals are amazing.

https://youtu.be/_UK7JtLALMo

[CDavis7M]

Maybe this post is the right spot...

Well, Seki Kotaro recently defeated Ichiriki to take the Tengen title and get his 8 dan promotion. I was excited to see a new face in the list of title holders. And I'm sure Go World will do a big story on this in 3 months or whatever their delay is. I'm looking forward to that.

I read several pieces of trivia recently so maybe I am mixing things up a bit, but Seki might just be the 2nd youngest Major Title Holder, but at 20 years 0 months, so no "Teenage Tengen." By the way, Shibano picked up 2 titles by the time he was 20 years and 0 months old. However, Seki is the person that picked up a major title the quickest (4 years since he started). Very cool.

So here I am excited to see a new face. I have no worries for Ichiriki, I'm sure he will pick up a title soon. But I went to look at the list of players on the Nihon Kiin to see Seki and I was shocked because there are now fewer faces.



Oh no, Shibano! So the match was yesterday? Iyama took the Oza title. And I guess Iyama has been dominating so much that the Nihon Kiin twitter felt the need to make a color coded title chart.

[silviu22]

Nifty chart, but what does it mean?

[jlt]

Columns are major titles. Iyama is in red (he is also known as Honinbo Monyu)

[CDavis7M]

Nifty chart, but what does it mean?

As jlt said, this is a chart of the titles.

I think the idea of showing this chart after Iyama won the Tengen is to recall that Iyama had 7 titles before, then 7 titles again, but lately new challengers have been taking titles from him. So it seemed like things were changing but recently Iyama is coming back to dominate. Though I just checked the Judan tournament and it seems Iyama was knocked out.

Titles:
棋聖 - Kisei
十段 - Judan (Jyudan?)
本因坊 - Honinbo
名人 - Meijin
碁聖 - Gosei
王座 - Oza
天元 - Tengen

Some of the players, starting with recent title holders:
井山　裕太 - Iyama Yuta
関　航太郎 - Seki Kotaro
許　家元 - Kyo Kagen
芝野　虎丸 - Shibano Toramaru
一力　遼 - Ichiriki Ryo
張　栩 - Cho U
山下　敬吾 - Yamashita Keigo
羽根直樹 - Hane Naoki
趙 治勲 - Cho Chikun
小林光一 - Kobayashi Koichi
加藤正夫 - Kato Masao

I'll just put the chart back on the same page:

[silviu22]

It looks like Kato Masao, Kobayashi Koichi and Cho Chikun were dominant in 1970-1999. But none of them were of the caliber of Iyama Yuta.

Also, what do the numbers mean in the column title?

[jlt]

Kato Masao, Kobayashi Koichi and Cho Chikun probably faced tougher opposition than Iyama.

月 means "month".

[John Fairbairn]

Kato Masao, Kobayashi Koichi and Cho Chikun probably faced tougher opposition than Iyama.

Maybe, maybe not. But Iyama has certainly had two advantages, one of which he shares with quite a few other players in the list.

This shared advantage is being the seeded title holder. This means that, in the major events, he has mostly had to go through zero games to reach the final, whereas his challenger has had an exhausting uphill battle. Experience of being in many title matches no doubt counts for a lot, too.

The other advantage, which he has not had to share, is that he has had to travel a lot less than his rivals. The Nihon Ki-in tries to share out high-profile games to its Osaka and Nagoya branches, instead of having everybody travel up to Tokyo all the time (the share-out with the Kansai Ki-in operates in a different way). The result has been that Iyama was often the only Osaka branch representative left in major events and so he got home berth more often than not. His rivals had to face the 300-mile slog and loss of home comforts.

I have no real idea how much impact travel and other forms of exhaustion or simple lack of experience has on pros, in all sporting fields, but I suspect it counts for far more than we amateurs tend to assume. I think the sudden collapse of Yan Nepomnyashchii in the world chess title match is a sign of how minor factors like these can build up and break the dam. Examples like Emma Radacanu seem to be usually the exceptions that prove the rule.

[jlt]

Well, Kato Masao, Kobayashi Koichi and Cho Chikun had to face each other, that's why I said they "probably" faced tougher opposition, but of course I can't prove that statement, we can't ask Iyama to play against young Cho Chikun.

[pajaro]

Cho Chikun or Kobayashi Koichi not being of the caliber of Iyama Yuta... I don't know, but it sounds like a bit much to say, IMHO. What would have happened if one of them didn't exist? The other would have won a lot more? Or not having that rival would have meant not growing so much? History fiction.

What I find surprising, about the current time, is that after Iyama had all 7 titles, and lost some, he is again with 5. He lost some to Shibano and Ichiriki, who held 2 titles each at their best time. But now, they are back again to 0, while the 2 titles that Iyama doesn't have are in hands of newer players, not even 9 dan yet.

In a couple of years, this will change, I am sure. My guess is that Iyama will try to keep the Honinbo and the Kisei, but will have more problems with the others. Of course, "try" doesn't mean success.

As for advantages, being seeded is a big one, of course. But having to perform well in so many title games is exhausting too.

About travel... with no overseas games, and his changes in personal life (he's a dad now...), I wonder if he has gained or lost.

[CDavis7M]

What I find surprising, about the current time, is that after Iyama had all 7 titles, and lost some, he is again with 5. He lost some to Shibano and Ichiriki, who held 2 titles each at their best time. But now, they are back again to 0, while the 2 titles that Iyama doesn't have are in hands of newer players, not even 9 dan yet.

This is what interests me too. So I went back to find the Tweet from the Nihon Kiin with the chart to see what they said. And it had no comment. But on my way scrolling to find that tweet, I found another tweet discussing Iyama. And it uses this phrase "# Crown", as in 井山裕太四冠. I sometimes hear "triple crown" in English sports so maybe it's the same thing. Another Japanese thing (or is it just Iyama?) is to hold up fingers to count their crowns. There's a ton of pictures of Iyama holding his fingers up. He also does it when counting consecutive wins of the same title.

All this to say that I agree his Quintuple Crown is a big deal, and especially because it is a redemption of sorts. The longer he holds off the youngin's, the more of a legend he will become. The Nihon Kiin is probably making a ton of money selling Iyama signed diplomas right now.

https://twitter.com/nikkeiphoto/status/ ... 8257795072


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Meanwhile, Iyama also was awarded with a year of chocolate.

[pajaro]

Meanwhile, Iyama also was awarded with a year of chocolate.

This!
So many years of hard work!
Finally!

Worth it!!

[jlt]

Hope he prefers black.