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 Post subject: New rules book
Post #1 Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 6:11 am 
Oza

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For the rules mavens, there is a new book out by O Meien, which may or may not be a major event. It is called Sekai no Igo Ruru (Go Rules around the World), 200 pages, 1300 yen, and is published by the Nihon Ki-in.

I haven't seen it and am unlikely to buy it, but, from the description, rather than O getting on his high horse and telling the world how only XYZ's Rules can get stones out of horses' hooves, he seems to describe and celebrate the variety of rule sets past and present, but with no western input.

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Post #2 Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 7:57 pm 
Honinbo
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Quote:
but with no western input.
So it may mention ING rules but probably not BGA or AGA rules... :study:

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 Post subject: Re: New rules book
Post #3 Posted: Sat May 04, 2019 9:59 pm 
Judan

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Are the ISBN or Japanese book title known?

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Post #4 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:03 am 
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EdLee wrote:
Quote:
but with no western input.
So it may mention ING rules but probably not BGA or AGA rules... :study:


I am unaware of these. Can you post a link as to where to find those directly or any analysis you may know of about the differences?

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 Post subject: Re: New rules book
Post #5 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:26 pm 
Honinbo

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John Fairbairn wrote:
For the rules mavens, there is a new book out by O Meien, which may or may not be a major event. It is called Sekai no Igo Ruru (Go Rules around the World), 200 pages, 1300 yen, and is published by the Nihon Ki-in.

I haven't seen it and am unlikely to buy it, but, from the description, rather than O getting on his high horse and telling the world how only XYZ's Rules can get stones out of horses' hooves, he seems to describe and celebrate the variety of rule sets past and present, but with no western input.

Emphasis mine.

So much for Sekai. :sad:

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 Post subject: Re: New rules book
Post #6 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:50 pm 
Oza

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Actually I bought this book on my last trip to Japan since I made the OP.

That doesn't mean I've read it, and in fact I haven't. What I did do, apparently, is skim through and make some notes, probably to fill a plane or train journey.

I still have those very brief notes. Looking at them is depressing, for two reasons. One reason is that, for some other reason I can't recall, I didn't write them in shorthand. Is this old age? The other reason, of course, is that they are about rules.

What these notes say is that:

1. Group tax and old rules survived in China up to WWII.

2. There were also old rules in Japan up to WWII.

3. O Mein said that in Taiwan, up until he was 13 (i.e. before he moved to Japan), they used Japanese and old Chinese rules in different enclaves.

4. The Chinese use "Japanese" territory style when evaluating and call it 比目法。 (Not速热我还要I noted that because I knew that already)

5. Modern Chinese is not stone counting, it is stones + territory.

6. Modern Chinese is 收后 = filling in 收 last dame. Also used in Taiwan in 1960-70s. [I have no idea what that note now means.]

7. In clubs etc or in parks where children play with stones and stones are left behind, Chinese rules with no prisoners make sense. 收后 is territory + stones (= "living fossil").

8. Rules in China changed in 1966. Before that not mainstream. A national event in 1964 used old rules. (?=didn't worry about last dame). Equal no. moves.

9. World Mind Sports 2008 = 收后.

10. 1991 AGA rules are 等子比空.

11. Group tax used in Japan up to Edo times it is believed.

12. Hard to imagine group tax was "invented" so must be original rules.

I can't make much sense of that now but it may give some useful indication to others of the sort of topics covered and how, and of course AGA does get a mention, no matter how briefly.

The contents are as follows:

Preface: The four "reallys!" [i.e. four surprising facts]

Chapter 1: Japanese rules are the rules chosen by people
- What is meant by Japanese rules being the best
- The key points about Japanese rules being the easiest to understand

Chapter 2: Chinese rules
- The essence of Chinese rules
- Problematic points in Chinese rules
- Aspects in which Chinese rules are superior
- The rules known as 等子比空

Chapter 3: Group tax was once the rule
- Group tax as a living fossil

Chapter 4: Sekis, Bent Four in the Corner and Torazu Sanmoku
- Seki under Chinese rules
- Providing answers for various rare shapes, can rules be absolute?

Chapter 5: The situation in Taiwan and Ing rules
- The situation in Taiwan
- Ing rules

Chapter 6: Go AI: is confirmation of territory a bugbear?
- Why AI uses Chinese rules
- We should make AI understand territory
- Go is a symbol of human knowledge

Chapter 7: "Pure go" - a way of introducing people to go
- You can learn go in 10 minutes
- "Pure go" was the original version of go
- Let's try teaching you "Pure go"
- "Pure go" is also a member of the go family

Chapter 8: In conclusion

Brief pause: At this point the rules mavens may wish to reach for a tissue to wipe their table or desk or lap free of all the splutter particles. Or you can Skip Pause in 4 sec.

For those willing to battle with this book, the ISBN is 978-4-8182-0674-8.

It is about 200 pages of mostly heavy text. It is highly idiomatic, so if your Japanese is limited to the formulaic Japanese of instruction books (e.g. "The hane at 9 is good") you may be wasting 1300 yen + tax. I haven't read enough to say anything sensible about it. Flipping through it now I can see phrases such a "pass, pass constitutes a ko threat" which I would imagine might induce a warm glow in the nether regions of some people, but which serve, in these lockdown days, as a welcome substitute for Mogadon for me.


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 Post subject: Re: New rules book
Post #7 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:36 am 
Judan

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John Fairbairn wrote:
4. The Chinese use "Japanese" territory style when evaluating


Do you mean that the book says "The Chinese use Japanese style territory counting when making positional judgements"?

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 Post subject: Re: New rules book
Post #8 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:19 am 
Oza

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Quote:
Do you mean that the book says "The Chinese use Japanese style territory counting when making positional judgements"?


Except that I would avoid the ambiguous term positional judgement, yes. And they use Japanese style komi (6.5) in their heads, though not at the end of the game of course. I have been told this by Chinese pros.

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