Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Talk about improving your game, resources you like, games you played, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:
Contact Knotwilg

Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Post by Knotwilg »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Mistake 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . a X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A skirmish has been going on in the lower right. How to continue? Turn at ''a'', the border of two moyos? Draw out and fight at ''b''? Or take the big point at ''c''? White's decision lost 4 points and dropped him from 80% to 60%.
Top
User avatar
jlt
Gosei
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:59 am
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 495 times

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Post by jlt »

Probably a wrong answer but I'll play.
Let's try to imagine some continuations for each move.

With move a, White is adding a stone to a group which is already quite strong; on the other hand, Black increases his moyo while swallowing the two white stones on a big scale.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
With move b, White reduces Black's potential on the right side but needs to struggle a lot to survive, and allows Black to control the center.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
With move c, White does reduce Black's potential on the top but also helps Black to build solid territory while attacking.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . 4 . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Hard to decide. I have a slight preference for c.
Top
pwaldron
Lives in gote
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 8:40 am
GD Posts: 1072
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Post by pwaldron »

Knotwilg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Mistake 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . a X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A skirmish has been going on in the lower right. How to continue? Turn at ''a'', the border of two moyos? Draw out and fight at ''b''? Or take the big point at ''c''? White's decision lost 4 points and dropped him from 80% to 60%.
I think it has to be 'a' or 'c'. 'b' just creates a weak group to attack, with no obvious upside.

My shape autopilot says 'a'. I would call it thick (John?) and it casts a menacing glance towards the group on the left. Without the weakness on the left I'm not sure how good a move it would be, since I think there's also a danger it could be overconcentrated.
Top
dfan
Gosei
Posts: 1598
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:49 am
Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Has thanked: 891 times
Been thanked: 534 times
Contact:
Contact dfan

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Post by dfan »

a is the sort of move I imagine a strong player yelling at me for not making.

At this point in my development, I try to make those moves without spending too much time trying to talk myself out of it.
Top
User avatar
Knotwilg
Oza
Posts: 2432
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Artevelde
OGS: Knotwilg
Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Has thanked: 360 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:
Contact Knotwilg

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Post by Knotwilg »

Solution
A, the turn, leveraging the two disposable stones, creating a thick wall which will affect everything to its left, in particular Black's floating group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Best
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Mistake 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 2 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The important idea is that saving the two stones here is heavy. They cut the black center stones but don't affect anything else. Black can strengthen the center stones at the expense of White's development at the bottom and in the center, also taking advantage of the aji at D.
Top
Uberdude
Judan
Posts: 6727
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
Rank: UK 4 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Location: Cambridge, UK
Has thanked: 436 times
Been thanked: 3718 times

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Post by Uberdude »

Turn like Shuko would. It's double sente to boot. In fact I find it odd that it is White's move in this shape: locally I expect White just extended (hane may have been better) and then black tenukid (top left block looks like possible place for the n bad timed gote) rather than keep on pushing.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Amateurs”