Otake Hideo 9p retires from Pro

[kyulearner]

On 15th Dec, Otake Hideo 9p had a press briefing announcing his retirement from pro. His reason was that the "picture" that comes into his mind while playing the game is not optimal anymore.

It all in Japanese, but its on you tube below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNSQtz0jOmc

[gowan]

I admire Otake-sensei's devotion to the aesthetics of go. Perhaps his aesthetic sense disagrees with modern AI influenced go.

[Rowen]

I am sure he will keep up with the game and participate in other ways.

Does anyone feel the character Kuwabara Sensei from Hikaru no Go (spelling?) was the inspired by this guy? Even his laugh and voice a very similar.

[John Fairbairn]

I don't think Otake would like to be described as a 9-dan, and certainly not as a 9p. I'll explain that later, but first a note on his retirement at the age of 79 in December 2021. It made the national press in Japan, after all.

He retired with a win-loss record of 1317-846, plus 5 jigos and 1 void game. This year his record has been 8-9, and last year was 4-7, so he still has what it takes to be even a 9-dan, but his real title was Honorary Gosei. He monopolised that for a time. He also won the Meijin, Oza and Judan titles, but the Kisei and Honinbo escaped him, though he did reach the title match in the Kisei a couple of times. In all he won 50 titles.

His win record of 1317 games made him only the fourth in Japanese history to pass the 1300 mark.

A couple of his games even made it into Hikaru no Go (GoGoD 1993-02-08a v. Takemiya, and 1996-06-14a v. Cho Chikun). Really, that was a little remiss of the Shonen Jump team. If you want to show the best of Otake you should be showing him against Rin Kaiho, his long-time rival. They are the same age, and at his farewell press conference Otake paid tribute to Rin for making him what he became. He added that he had misgivings about retiring before his old friend. But he said he had thought about his decision for the past few weeks, and what convinced him it was time to go was that he was now seeing, in his mind, pictures of go that just didn't seem right. He put this in a rather cryptic, enigmatic way (図／貧相) that had clearly been prepared so as to make people think. Since most people associate Otake with the aesthetics of go, his audience could fairly be expected to make that link here. Precisely what is meant by the famous "Otake aesthetic" is a matter of debate, however.

He is alleged to have resigned games just for making a bad move. That may be apocryphal. Even talking about his go on the go board may miss the mark a little. He certainly had strong views on good shape. He felt that playing lots of games taught one to recognise lots of positions and how to play them - the neural network approach, of course. When he was learning go as a child he didn't seem to invest too much time in rational thought. Mrs Kitani, in her autobiography recounts that in the Kitani school's evening sessions, when the pupils were supposed to play each other, he would do so with a comic in his hand.

Indeed, although he is associated with katachi (good shape), and even began a well regarded book on lightning go (the only one?) with a chapter on "learning by means of good shape", his introductory remarks in that book showed that he had in mind something that is more like dynamic haengma. This is what he says:

"In lightning go, the most important thing is to have a definite rhythm. If you lose that rhythm your stones will unexpectedly start moving in
the wrong direction. Once you lose the feeling of rhythm, you will end up with the phenomenon where "bad moves call forth more bad moves." Therefore the problem you have to solve is how to maintain this feeling of rhythm. Learning to play in good shape is essential to be able to complete a
whole game in a short time. It also serves by allowing this rhythm to flow naturally to the end. As soon as a certain shape appears on the
board, you need to be able to say: that's where I play now. A typical example is playing hane at the head of two stones. Of course in go there
are no absolutes. You must always look at the surrounding position before deciding whether or not a shape is good."

He then goes on to discuss sabaki, which is not what many westerners think it is. He is at pains to stress that the meaning is simply "coping" or "managing". Again a direct quote which is notable for the absence of the usual western sabaki buzzwords 'light' and 'flexible':

"Sabaki comes from the verb sabaku which means 'to bring things to a successful conclusion' or 'to resolve a confusing situation.'

But in a broader sense his aestheticism seem to derive from a love of Japanese tradition, with a feeling for hierarchy. This involved respect.

He was reportedly appalled by the behaviour of certain western amateurs at a European go congress, arguing about rules. Since he was for several years the President of the Nihon Ki-in, it is no surprise (as I have been told from several sources) that this had an impact on Japanese support for western go, though an unexpected Japanese economic downturn must have played a bigger part.

This (if true) was not xenophobia. A similar sense of what he regarded as right and proper can be seen in a domestic venture: the Meikikai or Distinguished Players Association, formed in 2003 in response to a call by Yoda Norimoto, O Rissei and Kato Masao.

This was an elite (and apparently elitist, to its critics) gathering limited to current pros in the Nihon Ki-in who had held one of the seven major domestic titles at least once. Its ostensible purposes were: (1) to help the spread of professional go; (2) to be a forum for debate on the way forward in professional go; (3) to support moves to make go more popular among the younger generation. The first association president was Otake Hideo, and Rin Kaiho was vice-president. Founder members, whom we might term 'the usual suspects,' totalled 20. Despite the formal articles of association, the real purpose of the association was seen in the press as a way of differentiating the very best players from the run-of-the mill 9-dans. The background at the time was that Japan had 443 professionals of whom 113 were 9-dan (out of a world population of 956 pros: 193 [26 9-dans] in Korea and 298 [20 9-dans] in China). In a phrase, rank inflation. But there was again an economic side to it: pensions were awarded on a rank basis, and the Nihon Ki-in was in the red.

Another clue to his mindset is that in his retirement press conference, he said that he hoped to enjoy life now as in Mito Komon. This was a long-running period drama on Japanese tv in which Mito, a retired merchant, roams around old Japan with two fun-loving samurais, Suke-san and Kaku-san. They right wrongs and take on gangsters while having their fun. (For gangsters I'd be tempted to read rules mavens!)

Mention of Kaku-san reminds me, because his full name is Atsumi Kakunoshin, that Otake also produced a couple of new proverbs. One, which I don't rate highly, is "When in danger, enter the tiger's lair." But I am rather fond of the other one: "When your opponent is thick, you must become thick, too."

Now, to finish, another look at Otakian sabaki.

In the following position, how does Black achieve sabaki? There are two answers, depending on whether ladder breakers work or not.

I like this because in the "ladder doesn't work" line, Black ends up with an empty triangle - which is not at all what most people associate with Otake.

[gowan]

A few points of interesat on Otake's career concerning the Meijin title:

1) He was a participant in the Meijin title match 12 times, actually winning it four times.

2) In 1977 and 1978 the Meijin title match was between Otake and Rin Kaiho, Rin winning in 1977 and Otake winning in 1978.

3) During the five year stretch from 1980 through 1984, when Cho Chikun won the Meijin title match, Otake was the opponent four times.

There was a period named "Chikurin", the charaters for bamboo (take) and forest (rin), from the names of Otake and Rin. This term Chikurin was also the name of a tournament for younger pros established by Otake and Rin.

Otake wrote one of the best instruction books for beginners on how to play the opening, Opening Theory Made Easy

[pajaro]

A few ages ago, when I started with go, I asked what pros to follow. One of the names that came up was Otake Hideo, because his style was easy to follow by amateurs. I guess it was because of his love to good shape and proper moves. Certainly, I could see one of his games and see, more or less, what was going on. Of course not deeply. But I didn't have the feeling, after 20 moves in a joseki, that both players had lost their minds and why they were losing so much time in a nonsensical battle.

Also, I have his "Opening theory made easy". 20 basic principles of fuseki (and middle game), with easy explanations. So easy that, when you see it put in those words, you think that it was not needed to write a book to explain such obvious things. But think again.

Somewhere, I have read that, amongst his pupils, you might include Fernando Aguilar, amateur 6 dan from Argentina. It's more like Fernando has learnt from Otake Hideo, rather than Otake has actually taught Fernando. Years ago, in a tournament with pros and amateurs (Toyota-Denso Cup, 2002, aka World Oza), Fernando beat Hasegawa Sunao 9 dan and Yo Kagen 9 dan in even games. After the game, Fernando wanted to thank his sensei. But the situation was serious (as in non festive), so he didn't say anything.

[Knotwilg]

Me too I tried learning from Otake one time in my "career" because of the alleged easy to follow, shape oriented game play or stated in a more refined manner - not sure if it's more correct - his tendency to emphasize influence and then take more points towards the endgame because of his overall thickness, dare I say atsusa. It was, of course, a delusion. Learning by emulating a pro didn't really work, at least not in my case, at my level, then and now a low dan.

I appreciate John's resume a lot.

On "sabaki", I rest assured that "managing, coping" is the better translation but then again concepts like "light" or "flexible" are more concrete to my Western brains than that.

The idea of playing according to a certain "rhythm" rather than emphasizing local beauty aka "shape" (the dull notion of it) indeed sounds familiar on both ends of the Kageyama-Katago spectrum. Even today, I played a game where I abandoned a group too soon, thinking it was strong enough to take care of itself, even dominate the local area, while it turned out to be "harassable". I do think Otake continued to play in a local position more often than other pros and certainly AI, making his groups strong rather than keeping the option to sacrifice them if that was globally more on the edge of victory, to then play rather sharply in the early endgame.

His retirement definitely encourages me to have another look at his games. I'll take the ones against Rin Kaiho. Thanks John for the reference.

[John Fairbairn]

His retirement definitely encourages me to have another look at his games. I'll take the ones against Rin Kaiho.

It is a common approach, even among pros, to decide to study a single player's games. The players even tend to be the same: Go Seigen, Shusaku, Sakata, Yi Ch'ang-ho, Nie Weiping, etc. I have tried this approach myself. But I have come to conclusion that this approach is slightly skewgee, at least for amateurs.

From being a small child I have had the habit of being sensitive to language. I have a sort of tracker in my mind that keeps track (roughly) of which words a speaker or writer uses and how many times. I apply this in go, too. I became especially aware of its value when producing the books in which I present commentaries based on multiple commentaries by different pros, often in different languages. You quickly become aware that different writers choose not only different aspects to focus on, but also choose different words for the same concept, or apply different nuances to the same word. As a concrete example of where this leads, I noticed that tsume (blocking extension) was almost the favourite word in commentaries by Shusai, and he is also fond of mentioning probes.

As for Go Seigen, everybody else mentioned his contact plays. He didn't. But I suspect players make different kinds of comment on their own games to those on games by other players. I found the latter more useful technically, although in the former case the comments do add a fascinating psychological layer to the technical layer.

I found this a much more insightful way of understanding an individual player. As a result I'd be tempted to recommend that you try to find comments by your favourite player on other players first, noting which concepts and terms he favours. before looking at his own games. I say "tempted" because I've had a lifetime of practice, and the approach may not work as well for other people. But, against that, I do believe everyone does to some degree subconsciously register word frequencies. That's how brains work, surely?

On "sabaki", I rest assured that "managing, coping" is the better translation but then again concepts like "light" or "flexible" are more concrete to my Western brains than that.

If you feel you have a concrete idea of what light means, you should be able to express it easily. It would be interesting to know how you see it. From my experience, westerners (especially at the weaker end of the scale) think of go lightness as being like Peter Pan dancing and flitting round in the air as he teases earth-bound Captain Hook. It's mostly show. But Japanese go lightness tends to focus on treating stones lightly (i.e. harshly - as trifling, sacrificial victims), and has little to do with prancing around. The process is dynamic, but harsh. You are in trouble, after all. That's why you are forced to cope.

In Japanese the adjective for light is karui. Its commonest usage is as 'karui ishi' - light (i,e. sacrificeable) stones. The typical usage in connection with sabaki, however, is an an adverb of manner: karuku sabaku - to cope by using sacrifice stones. It is the process which is light, not the shape. But when we see a typical English rendering such as "he achieves light sabaki". too many people think of a flimsy shape.

To put it another way, sabaki can be either a bee attack or a wasp attack. The bees die; the wasps live. Either way, the victim gets stung. In one case we lose a dollop of honey. In the other case we lose nothing.

In similar fashion, too many western players see flexible in go as being bendy (i.e. alternating kosumis and ikken tobi shapes). The real nuances are resilience and being prepared to sacrifice.

Edit: It occurred to me afterwards that it would be useful to point out where one can see some Otake commentaries. The best place seems to be his volume in the Nihon Taikei series, on Sentoku and the Great Senchi. If go was turned into a Trivial Pursuit kind of Q&A parlour game, you wouldn't expect Otake to be chosen to comment on Senchi. Takemiya, more like.

But just glancing through that book for a few seconds, I noticed three distinctive things at once. The first was his use of an essentially made-up word: usumika. He was praising a simple settly manoeuvre bey White because it thereby produced "thinnification" of Black's outside position. It was a powerfully impressive example, partly because of the new term.

The second was his praise of a move as producing a "beautiful feeling", but the special point is that "beautiful" was the English word.

The third was the significant use of "deep valley" in reference to a moyo. This term (tani ga fukai) is used in a recondite and sometimes inconsistent way. But it is significant partly because it is is unusual, and even seems obsolete nowadays.

In just a few seconds I felt I knew quite a bit more about Otake's go.

[Knotwilg]

It's useful to repeat that "light" is closer to "karui" than to "sabaki", or even the translation of it. I think I know that "sabaki" is more process oriented, an English -ing, where instead of "coping, managing" I might choose "getting out of trouble", using the imagery of lizards shedding their tail to escape wholesale capture. This means that I nearly always involve a sacrifice in a sabaki maneuver, while your empty triangle example has none of it, hence "coping" more generically.

To answer the question how I picture "light": light stones are mostly few in number and/or very loosely connected, which makes it easier to sacrifice them wholesale or in part, obtaining an advantage at the other side. But they are not merely disposable: there should be a capacity there to build strength, should the opponent not accept the sacrifice.

$$B
$$----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X . W . X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . a . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X . W . X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . a . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

For instance, the White stone is light. It can be easily sacrificed but it also has some aji, which White can activate with A.

$$W
$$----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X . W . X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 1 . 4 . .
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 b . a . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X . W . X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . 1 . 4 . .
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 b . a . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

The two white stones are still light to me. I can choose to run them out *lightly* at A, or turn at B and prepare for sacrifice.

$$W
$$----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X 1 W 2 X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X 3 O . X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 4 . a . . . .
$$ | . . b . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . . . .
$$ | . . O X 1 W 2 X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X 3 O . X . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O 4 . a . . . .
$$ | . . b . . . . . . .[/go]

This cut at would be heavy. Four stones become a lot to sacrifice and there's little capacity to do something else than their current cutting purpose.

[John Fairbairn]

It's useful to repeat that "light" is closer to "karui" than to "sabaki", or even the translation of it.

It's interesting to me that you seem to cleave so strongly to sabaki having some inherent component of lightness. You can add that (e.g. by saying karuku sabaku) but there's nothing inherent.

If you are a Japanese person coming new to go and you meet the word sabaku, you will already be conditioned by its usages in the ordinary world. To give some meanings from an ordinary dictionary, you will think of: dispose of, deal with, handle, manipulate, tackle. If you are a baseball fan as well, you may think of field, as in field a grounder. Or if you use it in other forms such as the negative, the meaning might be 'can't cope' because e.g. you are overworked, as in a case in Britain today where cafe workers are giving up their jobs because they can't handle making 50 smoothies a day.

This is for the kanji 捌. With other kanji there are other meanings (e.g. pass judgement).

I think you will see that there is no lightness in any of those senses. But our Japanese go novice might well feel lost despite (or because of) all these associations. That is, as you agree, because sabaku (a verb, after all) denotes a process in go. It needs defining and or exemplifying. In the process of defining that process and making the examples memorable, the definers will often show an example with sacrifice stones. Think of all those chess examples of mate where the queen is memorably sacrificed. But you don't usually have to sacrifice the queen to checkmate, no more than you have to sacrifice stones in go to achieve sabaki.

As to 'light being closer to karui', well it's more than that. It is precisely, in the main sense of not of heavy weight (light as feather), but also in the sense of regarding things as trifling, insignificant, important etc, again taking our cue from today's British press, as in Cabinet ministers regard having cheese and wine parties in their offices as the rest of Britain has to endure lockdown. But in go, there is the usual extension of specialist meaning and so light stones are not usually cheap plastic stones but stones which are (and I quote one Japanese definition) "not stolid looking and are easy to sacrifice, or we might also say stones that are resilient and which can easily allow sabaki." In other words, they are bringing lightness to the sabaki party. It seems to me your understanding of light stones is essentially correct, though it may be prudent to stress that there are other meanings of karui in other go contexts: e.g. there is light (= shallow) erasure, dodging lightly, and light moves are nimble moves.



In the example above, the three triangled stones are light. The unmarked White stone is a typical way of using them, as sacrificial victims. There is no sabaki achieved yet but the potential is there.

I feel that I should also add a warning not to get too engrossed in the meanings of 'cope' and 'manage'. They are not wrong, but maybe can give the impression (which already exists in some quarters) that sabaki is about escaping running away skilfully. It is but can be more than that. I like the definition of one Japanese writer who says that sabaku is about managing your stones so that they do not stagnate (todokooru). An example of that is below:

White is hardly in any direct danger, and so we can hardly talk of escaping or running away. But if he neglects this position, Black can easily make his stones look a bit stupid. Therefore he would like to play A, but if does Black is very likely to tenuki and so White's stones will still feel as if they are in a backwater - safe but stagnant.

Therefore White plays B to achieve (Japanese not western) sabaki. If Black answers at C, White can then play A in sente, following up with a move at D that makes his stones feel lively.

If Black answers the sacrifice with E, it is true that Whit cannot then play A in sente. but he can again enliven his stones with a jump to F, happy in the knowledge that he has left a time bomb in Black's position (the threat is G).

How many people here would have truthfully called that sabaki. But in Japan it has been given as the sole example in a definition of sabaki.

[Knotwilg]

It's interesting to me that you seem to cleave so strongly to sabaki having some inherent component of lightness. You can add that (e.g. by saying karuku sabaku) but there's nothing inherent.

As said, I have a mental picture of "light", not for sabaki, or rather I do have a vague notion but it seems to be very remote from what it is according to you. If it's even more generic than "coping", as per your last example, then it's starting to lose all conceptual significance for me.

I was looking forward to a reaction to "shedding the tail" as an analogy. If sabaki doesn't have anything of that, which is fair enough, then I still like to have a term that talks about "shedding the tail" because it's useful in Go to think about that when coping with a perilous situation.

You don't usually have to sacrifice the queen to checkmate, no more than you have to sacrifice stones in go to achieve sabaki.

That is true but what can we do with that information, both in Chess or Go?

It seems to me your understanding of light stones is essentially correct, though ...

"Oef!" As they say in Dutch - and again my goal in understanding a term is not so much to be correct according to source A or B but to be useful in both conceptual thinking and talking. The latter requires a certain "correctness": we should be talking about the same thing when saying the same thing.

I acknowledge that for a linguist it is important to capture the richness of vocabulary and language. If English, let alone its non-native speakers, fails to capture the subtlety of Japanese terms, then you may not always be able to state precisely what it is, rather give examples of where a word may be applicable or where it isn't. I sympathize with it - but as a Go player looking for useful tools, I can't *cope* with it

[jlt]

I can't *cope* with it

So you are sacrificing the tail of the meaning and trying to save the rest?

[Knotwilg]

This is my KataGo based review of the 1st game in the 1978 Meijin title match between Otake and Rin.

It would be great if John can find some professional commentary from the time - no pressure

[John Fairbairn]

I was looking forward to a reaction to "shedding the tail" as an analogy. If sabaki doesn't have anything of that, which is fair enough, then I still like to have a term that talks about "shedding the tail" because it's useful in Go to think about that when coping with a perilous situation.

What sort of reaction did you mean? It's a very, very old concept in go. See the problem "Gao Zu kills a snake" in Gateway To All Marvels. It's not a special attribute of sabaki manoeuvres, though it can occur there. The proverb "There's a big difference between sacrif9ng and dying" seems adequate enough to cover your concept. The Japanese refer to it as shippo-nuke, capturing the tail, but that usually comes up in reference to a kind of blunder that even pros are prone to but it's in that plagues amateur play (and I most certainly have suffered from it a lot). It's where you think you have cut off a group and so continue chasing it, but you have forgotten about the tail. Black chasing White out into the centre as below is an example, the tail being triangled.



Is your problem of seeing sabaki as coping perhaps to do with not appreciating the nuances in English? Unlike, say, manage or sort out, for us it has a strong connotation of dealing (effectively, of course) with a difficult or stressful situation. The effective response therefore implicitly has connotations of skilfulness or expediency or compromise or partial sacrifice- not just a simple pay-attention kind of response. In other words sabaku = cope.

Re the Meijin game, I can't face scouring the house for old Kidos, but I keep yearbooks behind me so I'll provide the brief comments from there, after tea.

[gowan]

The games of the Meijin title match between Otake and Rin in 1978 was cpvered in issue no. 11 of Go World, January-February 1979.