New book - Ogawa Doteki, Go Prodigy

[John Fairbairn]

Now that around two thirds of inseis in Japan are 13 or less, i.e. Sumire's age or less (and some are less than 10), talking of prodigies may seem banal, but one prodigy at least has been talk about for centuries.

Ogawa Doteki has often been hailed as the greatest go prodigy in history. Recent discoveries have given reason to re-assess that reputation slightly - a game against the great Honinbo Dosaku traditionally given at age thirteen is now known to be at around age seventeen. But to be able to play the first Go Saint on White as well as Black is an astounding achievement at any age. He also played White against the Inseki Meijin of ‘Igo Hatsuyoron' fame.’ And to have a game described by the modern Go Saint, Go Seigen, as “impeccable” tells us we are in the presence of greatness when we play over the sadly few Doteki games history has left to us. For Doteki died very young. His life span was just 1669 to 1690. Since, by then, he had already become the Honinbo heir and was at the highest possible rank outside of the sole Meijin, we can only wonder what levels he might have reached.

This new book contains all of Doteki’s known games - just over 20. Sixteen have been annotated, some with very deep commentaries, all based entirely on professional opinion. Five of those games are with Dosaku, and so we get to see two of the greatest go minds in action together. Like Go Seigen, modern players have struggled to find flaws in their games, which, incidentally, betray a likely influence from old Chinese go theory.

Despite his reputation, Doteki is not as well known as he should be. No doubt this is because his life was so short and so few games remain, and of course he was in the shadow of Dosaku, who outlived him.

This book is an attempt to fill that void. It has a brief survey of other go prodigies, in an attempt to trace their various types and also the different pressures on them. It also maps out the Japanese go world of that era, which is likewise not as well known as it should be. It is in Go Wisdom colour format, and has an index for use with GW reference materials in other works (the full GW appendix is omitted to keep the price down). There are 24 Doteki games (17 commented) and six extra reference games.

The ISBN is 979-8425201034 and is available on demand from Amazon.

[CDavis7M]

What a neat idea for a book. I was intrigued by Doteki after seeing his game in Appreciating Famous Games. When a prodigy dies young you have to think what could have been.

Shortly after reviewing Doteki's game in that book I was reading Master of Go and learned that Shusai's favorite disciple Kogishi died young and perhaps without his death he would have been made Honinbo heir. So would the title not have been sold to nichinichi/mainichi?

And since this book and prodigies were mentioned a few weeks ago I've been reminded every time I read about one. Of course everyone knows Shusaku. And a lot of Go fans know of Akaboshi Intetsu who died at what, 25 years old, shortly after the blood vomiting game. He was 7 dan. But wasn't there another prodigy that died of cholera? Maybe the same epidemic that took Shusaku? I forget who I was reading about, and when they lived. Anyway, I ordered the book so I'll read on from there. By the way, I appreciate these smaller form books.


...a morbid thought but with players rising to the top so young and older players falling off early these days maybe there is less... never mind.

[tundra]

Shortly after reviewing Doteki's game in that book I was reading Master of Go and learned that Shusai's favorite disciple Kogishi died young and perhaps without his death he would have been made Honinbo heir. So would the title not have been sold to nichinichi/mainichi?

This raises an interesting (at least, to me) "what-if" question: What if Shusai had refused to sell the Honinbo title, but instead had kept to the tradition of passing it on to an heir? And suppose that heir had also continued the tradition, and so on. How would this have fit in with the rest of the Japanese Go world? Would people have felt that the Honinbo was a true go master, compared to the winners in the annual competitions? Or would it be viewed the other way, that the ones who triumphed in the open competitions were the real masters?

Just speculating. Maybe there is some parallel with the judo movement, which absorbed most, but not all, of the earlier jiu-jitsu schools. The ones that remained separate seem to have survived, but they are small schools that hardly anyone hears about.

[Ferran]

This raises an interesting (at least, to me) "what-if" question: What if Shusai had refused to sell the Honinbo title, but instead had kept to the tradition of passing it on to an heir?

What would be the competition? Other iemoto schools or modern associations? Would, say, the Yasui "sponsor" any of those?

I see your comparison with Judo, and I kinda agree. The only arts I can see that kinda compete with Judo are BJJ and Aikido. Which, granted, are different, but do kinda share the roots (in Japanese nobility unarmed fighting methods). I can see something left of the iemoto system in BJJ and, mostly, Aikido, even if broken in pieces.

And I can see something similar in kyudo or iaido (or naginata, or...), where old schools are, kinda, tolerated. Sometimes honored... provided they don't mess with the Federation.

BUT all those systems were clan systems, tied to daimyô. Influential or not, one of many. The schools of Go where four (plus the minor 3), under direct sponsorship of the shogunate. I'm not sure how much this prestige would have helped. Hell, I'm not sure how much this prestige DID help.

I'm not sure either how much of Judo's influence is not so much the school system but the competition. Many people who do practice judo do NOT trace their hierarchy to the Kodokan. They are as separated of it as I might be of the Honinbo. Sure, they kinda owe the art to it, but... [*] In the same way, I'm not sure the explosion of Go couldn't have been achieved by an opening of the Houses to external competition, and ranks. I suspect they could have held rather well if they'd established themselves as authorities but had opened (or delegated!) rank recognition, competitions and such to external individuals and associations. Similar to an academic environment, maybe, as scholar authorities.

Anyhow, it is what it is. And we seem to crave a single body. The offshots of Judo, Kendo... and Go tend to become "quirks" more than alternatives. How many events, in the West, are organised separatedly from the respective association? As in *really* separate, not "well, AGA/EGF don't pay for it, but it's in their roster".

Take care.

[*] As an example, the dan progression, in Judo, of Keiko Fukuda, direct disciple of Kanō Jigorō reflects Western associations pulling the Japanese one into honoring her. That's NOT a traditional way of acknowledging the precedence of the Japanese body.

[ez4u]

Hmmm... It appeared in Amazon on April 15th (per the Amazon page). However, it has not yet appeared in Amazon Japan.

[John Fairbairn]

Hmmm... It appeared in Amazon on April 15th (per the Amazon page). However, it has not yet appeared in Amazon Japan.

There is some sort of restriction as regards colour printing in Japan and Australia. Apart from that, speed of propagation of the product pages throughout the world varies, presumably connected with a need to translate some data.

[lichigo]

I got the book yesterday. Very cool stories and it's always a great pleasure to read about past masters. I went through 6 games and I can feel how deep is the reading thanks to the commentaries and my AI on the side. I would love to play like that even if it only at 10%.

What is the next book ^^ I know I am greedy ^^

[John Fairbairn]

What is the next book ^^ I know I am greedy ^^

Gekko said greed is good! But he also went to gaol for it.

I have a couple more Museum of Go Theory books just needing the lick of paint of proof-reading, but the one that interest me most at the moment is Life and Times of Segoe Kensaku, which I've done about two-thirds of. Then there's the magnum opus of Huang Longshi. That's close to finished but there's too much opposition to doorstep books. (I have thought of a multi-volume series, but I don't think that works here).

Slightly further ahead, I'm working on Honinbo Dochi, but that too is a doorstep problem. In my day, go players were capable of eating three Shredded Wheat. Modern readers seem to want just a 60-calorie yoghurt for breakfast, and so are not capable of even lifting these books up.

[CDavis7M]

...but there's too much opposition to doorstep books.

Seems like Amazon's printing service doesn't like them either. I finally decided to spend $80 for Shuei and this is what I got. Can't even say I was surprised and if anything I was thankful because at least the shipping box snugly fit the size of the book so it was only minimally damaged in transit.





To be fair the structure of the book is fine. I can enjoy Go with some imperfection.

[John Fairbairn]

It's a shame you had that experience, although I gather Amazon has a good replacement policy (never had to use it, fortunately). Is this a spin-off of what we see on tv: American paper boys deliver papers like cruise missiles launched at front doors from USS Bike miles away? Our Amazon deliverymen tell big fibs (e.g. "handed to resident" when resident was not even in the country) but do at least come right to the front door.

I would be interested in hearing views on multi-volume books. Among the various problems for me, two stand out. One is that I insist on an index and also tend to have appendices. Reprinting these makes individual books bigger, which increases the total cost, and the unit cost of each volume is bigger to start with. (And that includes cost to me: I already lose money on most books.)

The other problem is that I like to use cross references (e.g. "this opening also occurs in Game X" or explaining a style feature that occurs in various games). I imagine cross-references to a volume you may not have yet would be pretty high on a list of irritations.

Putting multi-volumes in a binding box à la japonaise is not offered by Amazon, and e-books are a no-no (piracy plus the fact that the only decent portal is Smartgo but that's Mac oriented and I'm a Windows man. I did buy a Mac computer once to produce e-books but did not enjoy the Apple experience.

[HKA]

I would read a compendium of your grocery lists.

[sorin]

Both "Games of Shuei" and the similarly large "Genjo - Chitoku" books arrived in perfect condition for me, you must have had bad luck... I would just return it and reorder, to get one without defects.

Seems like Amazon's printing service doesn't like them either. I finally decided to spend $80 for Shuei and this is what I got. Can't even say I was surprised and if anything I was thankful because at least the shipping box snugly fit the size of the book so it was only minimally damaged in transit.

[CDavis7M]

Both "Games of Shuei" and the similarly large "Genjo - Chitoku" books arrived in perfect condition for me, you must have had bad luck... I would just return it and reorder, to get one without defects.

I went ahead and started a return request earlier this morning and stopped before submitting because I think there's a good chance the next book comes damaged as at least half of my books from Amazon US arrive damaged (bent and banged up, not a defect like this). I was thinking that it wasn't worth the headache of a return but reading your luck makes me wonder if I am just unlucky and I should try it.

[CDavis7M]

I would be interested in hearing views on multi-volume books. Among the various problems for me, two stand out. One is that I insist on an index and also tend to have appendices. Reprinting these makes individual books bigger, which increases the total cost, and the unit cost of each volume is bigger to start with. (And that includes cost to me: I already lose money on most books.)

Personally, I don't know if multi-volume is a good idea for the reasons you stated. So a huge book seems like a necessity. While I do not prefer large books, I think my tune will change entirely after I begin studying with Go Wisdom because (I believe) that relies on a huge appendix of examples. Which is the main reason I bought the Shuei book in the first place.

I personally enjoy smaller fun/novel books like Go Prodigy. The introduction article is great -- I learned about new people and I learned more about familiar faces. Like little Cho Chikun.

My other book on Huang Lonshi (中国古碁・最強棋士対局集) has 23 games in 330 half-size pages. Which in your larger format with index might only be 200 pages. Which is not huge. Though I know GoGoD has over 100 games. So that would be a Shuei size book.

A smaller (fun) book on Huang Longshi could have just covered his handicap games like the series of 10 (11?) games against Xu Xingyou. Perhaps the handicap games are a candidate for their own volume. Which might make sense if you have enough to say about Chinese handicap Go. And maybe the Go Wisdom appendix would have a separate focus given that handicap strategy is a bit different. Just thoughts... I'm still having fun reviewing the other books.

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By the way, I'm working on binding and a multi-volume box seems doable. I've seen a few sets of old Go books with traditional binding and a case like this.

[John Fairbairn]

In this book I gave a brief summary of various prodigies other than Doteki, but for Aihara Kaseki I gave a somewhat longer account because he was almost contemporaneous with Doteki, and so I could use that fact to give some general background to the go scene at that time.

By pure chance I have just seen that some of Kaseki's diplomas have now been revealed. They are in the possession of his descendant Aihara Tetsuo. Three exist. The important one is his 7-dan diploma, dated 1719 and signed like the others, with the Godokoro Dosetsu Inseki's distinctive reclining nude autograph (it resembles the Rokeby Venus). There are also some game records in the collection, notably his famous game with Yara no Satonushi.

These don't add to our knowledge directly, but very little original material does exist from this important period, and it gives hope that more such items can be found in dusty godowns.