KataGo self-play games + video reviews

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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

Game 70 (7 komi, NZ rules) features an uncharacteristic large drop in winrate after move 159, and suddenly black is at least 8 points ahead. https://online-go.com/review/761790
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Game 68 continued at a instead of Q2.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . X X X . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

[/quote]
Attachments
Untitled.png
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kg_7_komi_game_70.sgf
(1.36 KiB) Downloaded 1230 times
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In game 71 (7 komi, NZ rules), after 151. T2, white is ahead by at least six points. Black ends up dying on a massive scale and loses by 80 points. https://online-go.com/review/762760
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Future games continue at a, b, c, d and e instead of L15.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . d . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

[/quote]
Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_71.sgf
(1.61 KiB) Downloaded 1257 times
Last edited by Maharani on Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

Maharani wrote:Game 10 (NZ rules, 7 komi) was the first close game since the tie in game 3, white by 2 points it looks like. Peaceful game with huge territories on either side. Quite pleasing-looking to this 11k human :) https://online-go.com/demo/view/456362
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 73 continues at a instead of F11.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . a X X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

terrific, OGS 5d did a 125-minute YouTube review of this game! https://youtu.be/ZtGfqeBA-ko

I’ve added all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, to the OGS review as well.
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In game 72 (7 komi, NZ rules) the entire sequence from move 46 - 82 felt like a giant "joseki on the side" (most of it playing out just the way Kata read it out at the beginning) with black getting a 36-point corner, whereas white makes a 12-point territory with thickness on the outside. https://online-go.com/review/764480
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc a loses 0.9 pp winrate compared to C15. Variation in the .sgf.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X O . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . O . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O X O O . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . X X O O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . O . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_72.sgf
(3.26 KiB) Downloaded 1283 times
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

Non-19-x-19 square boards are finally accessible on https://www.baduk.com/next/. I've played a 9 x 9 game in one go (about three hours) and am happy enough for this to be my only 9 x 9 high playout game (100,000 - 1,400,000 per move). From move 0 - 38, there wasn't a single move at which KataGo's second-favourite choice was close enough to its favourite move to qualify for my branching criteria. At move 39, we're already in the endgame with everything settled. https://online-go.com/review/767012
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Variation from move 0 (around 200,000 playouts on just F6)
$$ +-------------------+
$$ | . . . . . X O . W |
$$ | . . . O . X O O X |
$$ | . . O . O X O . X |
$$ | . X X O . X O O O |
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$$ | . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_9_x_9_game.sgf
(1.73 KiB) Downloaded 1312 times
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

I've played three 13 x 13 games (all in the same file). The second game turned out a bit more complicated and exciting than the first one (30 moves longer, too). For a while it looked like a white win was in the cards. Move 53 was the highlight for this 10 kyu :D In the end, all three games ended as draws. Shoutout to game 3, move 66 as well. https://online-go.com/review/767121
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White's first move branches at a, b and c.
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . B . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]
.sgf with all three games:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_13_x_13_games.sgf
(3.1 KiB) Downloaded 1260 times
Last edited by Maharani on Mon May 16, 2022 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In 19 x 19 game 73 (NZ rules, 7 komi), 10p AI shows that the best way to play go is to play tengen and build three B2 bombers. https://online-go.com/review/766997
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Game 74 continues at a instead of F12.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
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$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . a X O O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
terrific, OGS 5d has done a three-part YouTube review of this game!
https://youtu.be/ocY3m8d3K04
https://youtu.be/4nJG3sqoe9M
https://youtu.be/qAEMP4RSUJM
I’ve included all of his (commented) variations, plus more KataGo variations, in the OGS review as well.

.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_73.sgf
(25.18 KiB) Downloaded 1267 times
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In our 11 x 11 game, KataGo plays four 4-4 points: https://online-go.com/review/772005
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play.
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_11_x_11_game.sgf
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

I asked high-playout KataGo to play two games from the Tibetan starting position on a 17 x 17 board. I still used NZ rules and 7 komi.

White won the first game, but the second (bottom variation in the same file) was a breathtaking draw. Here is my 10 kyu interpretation:

Moves 13 - 48 are an exciting early middle game.
Moves 49 - 69 black builds a ko factory.
Moves 70 - 90 white builds a ko factory of its own.
Moves 145 - 247 is the ko fight.

And Clydevil (~2d)'s interpretation:

49-69 for black is just a way to invade the white framework. You just have to see the whole maneuver as invading the whole top left. it's common when invading framework to play at several places and key points at the same time and deciding at some point what to sacrifice and what to make live. Here black discards the left and stabilizes the top part.
70-73 can be seen as probing exchanges, white makes black decide how he will kill it, thus deciding forcing moves in the vicinity.
74-75 can be seen as a first use of this white aji built in sente, white plays at the top 74, removing pbs in its shape and preparing an attack on the top group, black needs to answer to avoid things around K6 or H6 that could be large white reductions. So I guess here that white is just happy with 70-75 to play 74 in some kind of sente.
76-87 tries to recycle the white death into something useful, and it seems that what is mainly accomplished here is white huge yose at M2 followed by N2 (which is hard to see because in the game white changes it's mind and do not play N2, but locally white N2 instead of the game move 92 would be logical).

https://online-go.com/review/769120
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White continues at a and b.
$$ +-----------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . O . . . X . . . O . B . X . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . O . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_Tibetan_games.sgf
(3.13 KiB) Downloaded 1214 times
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

I also asked high-playout KataGo to play two games from the sunjang starting position (still with NZ rules and 7 komi). Black won the first game, the second (bottom variation in the same file) was a draw. Kata really likes the 6-2 point in these games. She played it once in the first game, twice in the second. https://online-go.com/review/818991
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black continues at a and b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . X . . O . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . b . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . X . . O . . X . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_sunjang_games.sgf
(3.93 KiB) Downloaded 1209 times
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

Black wins 19 x 19 game 74 (NZ rules, 7 komi) by at least 26 points - see fun score chart below. This is the thirteenth and last game continuing from black 17. C6. https://online-go.com/review/773159
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The opening.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O . . . X W O X . . . . |
$$ | . X . X . X . O . O . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_74.sgf
(51.68 KiB) Downloaded 1531 times
Untitled (2).png
Untitled (2).png (323.39 KiB) Viewed 23272 times
Last edited by Maharani on Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Maharani
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In game 75 (NZ rules, 7 komi), white doesn't play northwest of the tenth line until move 100: https://online-go.com/demo/view/865331
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The fun begins.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . O W X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . O . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_75.sgf
(2.14 KiB) Downloaded 1194 times
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Maharani
Lives with ko
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Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In game 76 (NZ rules, 7 komi), by move 180, black is ahead by 4 points. Our current tally is 17 black wins, 27 draws and 32 white wins. https://online-go.com/review/877574
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The opening.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . X . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . X X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O . . O . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_76.sgf
(1.67 KiB) Downloaded 1181 times
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Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 am
Rank: OGS 9 kyu
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OGS: Maharani
Location: Pasadena, USA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

Game 77 (7 komi, NZ rules) sees some of the most bizarre endgame I've ever seen. White seems to play meaningless moves in black's territory from 154 - 175, then from 195 - 222 black seems to be returning the favour. After move 213, black is at least 2 points ahead. At move 248, white starts giving away points and ends up losing by 12. https://online-go.com/demo/view/880171
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Five games continued at a instead of P15. Game 78 will continue at b.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_77.sgf
(1.95 KiB) Downloaded 1174 times
Last edited by Maharani on Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Maharani
Lives with ko
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:47 am
Rank: OGS 9 kyu
GD Posts: 0
OGS: Maharani
Location: Pasadena, USA
Has thanked: 80 times
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: My hand-crafted KataGo (+ AlphaGo Teach) self-play games

Post by Maharani »

In game 78 (7 komi, NZ rules), black tries to build a center moyo. After move 43, white seems firmly ahead by 1 point and maintains a small lead throughout the game. There is a cool endgame trade in which white sacrifices its right-side group for a large bottom side. https://online-go.com/demo/view/884311
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The opening.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . O X . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . X . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
.sgf:

Attachments
kg_7_komi_game_78.sgf
(1.88 KiB) Downloaded 1173 times
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