What is the longest winning sequence ?

[Gérard TAILLE]

I begin to look at sequences using molasses ko but I am not sure how to count the number of moves with this special configuration.
Let's try on a small example. How many moves white can impose to black? What is your understanding of what is allowed by the japanese rule?

[Gérard TAILLE]

You can also pick any other method you wish besides a ladder of giving one player a very large but finite number of ko threats, and where all the ko threats are non-point-losing ko threats. A ladder inside someone's territory is simply one way of doing so that can be made particularly dense and numerous.

The point is that every ko threat now adds the entire length of the double-ko-death-like ko snake in additional moves to the longest variation. So this ko-snake construction allows you to multiplicatively expand the number of forced moves that a final sequence of the game takes, easily to many thousands of moves.

Very good point Lightvector. I understand.
Before trying this idea what about solving a far more easier problem. What is the longest winning sequence without any capture?

I propose 311 moves:

[Harleqin]

I think if you are using Japanese rules, a long cycle would mean that the game goes on forever, so the sequence is infinite. I believe that the meaning of »no result« is that the players don't finish it.

[Gérard TAILLE]

I think if you are using Japanese rules, a long cycle would mean that the game goes on forever, so the sequence is infinite. I believe that the meaning of »no result« is that the players don't finish it.

Yes Harleqin I know. That is the exact reason why my question was "What is the longest WINNING sequence?".
If one player can force a "no result" then the sequence cannot be a winning one, can it?

[Gérard TAILLE]

Something like
https://senseis.xmp.net/?MolassesKo

It is not quite clear for me what is the result of a molasses ko under japonese rule.
It looks to me like a "no result" game. Is it true?

[Cassandra]

It is not quite clear for me what is the result of a molasses ko under japonese rule.
It looks to me like a "no result" game. Is it true?

Do you think it would make sense to play elsewhere if you wanted this result?

Assuming that there are no ko threats big enough, this situation will repeat as long as there are valid moves on the board.

[Gérard TAILLE]

It is not quite clear for me what is the result of a molasses ko under japonese rule.
It looks to me like a "no result" game. Is it true?

Do you think it would make sense to play elsewhere if you wanted this result?

Assuming that there are no ko threats big enough, this situation will repeat as long as there are valid moves on the board.

$$ Black to play, komi 0.5
$$ +---------------+
$$ | X O O O O O X |
$$ | X O . . O X . |
$$ | X X O O X . X |
$$ | O X X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O O O O |
$$ | X X X X O . O |
$$ | . X . X O O . |
$$ +---------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$ Black to play, komi 0.5
$$ +---------------+
$$ | X O O O O O X |
$$ | X O . . O X . |
$$ | X X O O X . X |
$$ | O X X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O O O O |
$$ | X X X X O . O |
$$ | . X . X O O . |
$$ +---------------+[/go]

What is the result of this game (no move available)? No result? Other?

[Matti]

A molasses ko makes the game five times slower. If there is two molasses kos of differnt sizes the game get 25 times slower. There might be even more molasses kos.

[RobertJasiek]

Do you have a sample SGF with a sequence in two molasses kos, please?