For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
ethanb
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Post
by ethanb » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:10 pm
Cassandra wrote:
Preventing White's Sente on the left immediately ...
... will not work, I suppose.
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
... are you sure?
A and B are miai
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 7 8 . b . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a 2 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 9 O 5 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 7 8 . b . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a 2 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 9 O 5 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Again
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 7 8 . b 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 9 O 4 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 7 8 . b 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 9 O 4 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Still dead, I think.
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . 5 . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O . O 7 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . 5 . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O . O 7 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This one is seki, but maybe I've got the wrong order of moves for black. Do we know the answer is supposed to be unconditional death?
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . 5 9 7 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 0 O 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . 5 9 7 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 2 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 0 O 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 X X O 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Cassandra
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Post
by Cassandra » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:25 am
ethanb wrote:
"@ Cassandra: '... are you sure?'"
Yes.
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . a 4 b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a W . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , B X X O B . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . a 4 b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a W . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , B X X O B . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
One of the a is an eye and b is the second one.
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a W . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X O a O b O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , B X X O 6 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O 5 X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O a W . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . X O a O b O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , B X X O 6 4 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O 5 X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
a and b will become eyes.
cyclops
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Post
by cyclops » Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:10 pm
prokofiev wrote: A few thoughts that are perhaps obvious:
It seems that if you don't play O19, White gets an easy eye:
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , X 2 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , X 2 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Edit: Nevermind. I had some idea about ignoring M19, but it clearly does not work...
I'm not sure what is wrong with your B1. B5&r19 next in your diagram seems to kill W. Or??
I think I am so I think I am.
Joaz Banbeck
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Post
by Joaz Banbeck » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:38 pm
ethanb wrote:
...
$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O 8 7 1 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 5 O 9 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X X O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O 8 7 1 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 5 O 9 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X X O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White can resist better with
like this:
$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . 1 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 5 O 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Ah, tesuji?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 2 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . . 1 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O 5 O 6 O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 3 X X O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Cassandra
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Post
by Cassandra » Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:19 am
cyclops wrote: I'm not sure what is wrong with your B1. ...
$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O M O M O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X Z O . . Z . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O . 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X O M O M O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X Z O . . Z . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Black 1 is an interesting spot.
This is the point to make two of White's potential eyes false simultanously. It goes without saying that this stone has to remain on the board to be effective.
Now the right seems to be more interesting than the left.
Jordus
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Post
by Jordus » Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:38 am
If white plays badly
Ignore Variations....
A more serious try (again ignore variations):
I'm thinking...
Joaz Banbeck
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Post
by Joaz Banbeck » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:23 pm
Jordus wrote:
A more serious try ...
White lives like this:
11 O17
12 takes ko
13 M19
14 L16
15 takes ko
16 ( no ko threat )
Jordus
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Post
by Jordus » Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:43 pm
Joaz Banbeck wrote: Jordus wrote:
A more serious try ...
White lives like this:
11 O17
12 takes ko
13 M19
14 L16
15 takes ko
16 ( no ko threat )
I disagree with your move 13... white wouldn:t play m19, they would play p17 to protect the 4 stones in atari...
I'm thinking...
Joaz Banbeck
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Post
by Joaz Banbeck » Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:51 pm
Jordus wrote: Joaz Banbeck wrote: Jordus wrote:
A more serious try ...
White lives like this:
11 O17
12 takes ko
13 M19
14 L16
15 takes ko
16 ( no ko threat )
I disagree with your move 13... white wouldn:t play m19, they would play p17 to protect the 4 stones in atari...
As I understand the rules here, the goal is to kill
all of the white stones. If the majority get away, then the line is not a solution.
illluck
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Post
by illluck » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:28 am
Cassandra
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Post
by Cassandra » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:53 am
@ Jordus:
Even if your sequence would work for Black, you might have only shown that
one (in answer to
one ) does not bring White to life.
There are other
remaining for White. If none of them brings White to life, this one
is the first move of the solution.