It is currently Mon Mar 04, 2024 7:27 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #1 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:39 am 
Oza

Posts: 3640
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4618
It's been a while, but a new edition of the legendary GoGoD database has just been released on https://gogodonline.co.uk/

This edition has over 115,400 sgf games. New highlights include:

1. The complete games of Shuwa (over 600).

2. Quite a few new Segoe games (and others from the same era) in connection with working on The Life & Times of Segoe Kensaku. Segoe's own total is now approaching 500.

3. 200 games by Sumire.

4. The two Chos, Chikun and Hun-hyeon are still the leaders and the only players over 2,000 games. But both are still playing and Chikun is fast approaching 2,500.

5. A newly discovered Go Seigen game, bringing his total to 898.

The database is also available in the SmartGo app, of course, and this has been updated much more regularly. Indeed, we have decided to update that version now about monthly (Apple has made some changes which apparently make updating of apps a lot easier).


This post by John Fairbairn was liked by 2 people: Bonobo, gowan
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #2 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:51 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
I use the GoGoD onomasticon far more than I would have expected. It's often the only place to find information in English. Like if someone wanted to look up Hayashi Genbi's rank promotion (I forget why I wanted to). I see on the website that it's still being updated ((Now includes the updated names dictionary in xml format (Windows reader included) - 4,475 entries!). So thank you.

Let me know if there's a graded onomasticon quiz that I can submit answers for in order to obtain a signed deluxe GoGoD CD certificate combo.

----------

Smart Go does not include the onomasticon, does it? I was considering purchasing a Smart Go subscription (though I am anti-subscription) since I have difficulty importing games (mostly from GoGoD) into the Smart Go app (it's one by one). I should probably give it a chance.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #3 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:47 am 
Oza

Posts: 3640
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4618
Quote:
Smart Go does not include the onomasticon, does it? I was considering purchasing a Smart Go subscription (though I am anti-subscription) since I have difficulty importing games (mostly from GoGoD) into the Smart Go app (it's one by one). I should probably give it a chance.


I'm not actually a SmartGo user (don't have to be, plus it's too complicated for me - too state of the art and too many bells and whistles for an old man). But I do supply the onomasticon to Anders and he does proof-read it, and he uses it to check the player names in the database games. But where it is within the app I wot not. There is more than one SmartGo product, though, so maybe it's hiding somewhere else. Mac iOS users get offered more than Windows people, I believe.

But I do know that in the app I have (on Windows), you don't have to import any GoGoD games, because they are all there already. And with the subscription you get new ones each month or so.

I think there is also some sort of tie-in with SmartGo Books now, but I'm not the one to advise on such things.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #4 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:59 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 902
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Liked others: 319
Was liked: 287
Rank: AGA 3k
Universal go server handle: jeromie
There is a “players” section in the SmartGo app that includes the biographical information for each player, a quick link to all of their games in the database, and career details such as rank progression. Presumably, all of this information is drawn from the onimasticon.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #5 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:13 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 714
Liked others: 109
Was liked: 138
Rank: Shokyu
Universal go server handle: CDavis7M
jeromie wrote:
There is a “players” section in the SmartGo app that includes the biographical information for each player, a quick link to all of their games in the database, and career details such as rank progression. Presumably, all of this information is drawn from the onimasticon.

Thanks for the tip! I did not recognize this section of the app because it only included ~150 players compared to the file I'm used to reviewing. It was set up as a demo.

I activated the "Smart Go One" subscription and now there are 4,455 players and 115,316 games (instead of a few hundred or so). The GoGoD onomasticon displays nicely. You can even search with Chinese characters and click links in the bio to view other people. This feature isn't highlighted on the front page of their website (that I see) but it was mentioned in the app as being a "Pro" feature.

I had been considering Smart Go and so I'm happy for the collaboration. Thanks to everyone.


This post by CDavis7M was liked by: Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #6 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:32 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 125
Liked others: 123
Was liked: 42
I was wondering, have you any fairly definite plans on when the next edition of GoGoD will be released? I don't mean to sound cheap (though I suppose I do), but I was thinking of buying a copy, and wondered if I should wait for a new version.

Of course, if the next version is not due until sometime next year, then I will buy the 2022 version now (perhaps before the day is over). But if a new version is coming in the next month or so, then I will wait, and just continue using my 2012 edition in the meantime :)

_________________
And the go-fever which is more real than many doctors’ diseases, waked and raged...
- Rudyard Kipling, "The Light That Failed" (1891)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #7 Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:05 pm 
Oza

Posts: 3640
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4618
I offer updates through SmartGo whenever Anders asks for one, which is about every three months or so. That includes both the games and the Onomasticon.

On the GoGoD website, I tend to update irrationally, for example only when there's a landmark number. The next one would probably 120,000 games, which is not far off, but I expect I'll combine that into a Christmas update. Only the website offers the GoGoD Encyclopaedia package, but that is a legacy item now - never updated.

The website https://gogodonline.co.uk/ also contains details of all available books. The Segoe biography is now ready for proof-reading but as it's very big (almost 500 pages), that will take some time. Next in line is Volume 1 in a series on the tsumego classics. This is also ready for proof-reading but it's an even bigger whopper. It includes all the problems from Carefree & Innocent Pastime (Wangyou Qingle Ji) and Gateway to All Marvels (Xuanxuan Qijing) with full explanation of all the names and collation of many pro comments on the solutions. I hope to have them both ready well before Christmas, but given their size you might want to start dropping hints to loved ones.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #8 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:38 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 612
Liked others: 148
Was liked: 117
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
John Fairbairn wrote:
I offer updates through SmartGo whenever Anders asks for one, which is about every three months or so. That includes both the games and the Onomasticon.


But that's through the app, isn't it? Unix-like users are out of luck.

Quote:
The Segoe biography is now ready for proof-reading but as it's very big (almost 500 pages), that will take some time.


That's a name that's always there, and yet... it's always _there_, if I can mess the language. He's in everything from the Atom Bomb game to Go Seigen, Cho Hun-hyeon... I'm assuming he was also somewhat tied to the Honinbo retirement... He had a quite prolific life, influenced modern Go in 1001 ways... and yet, there's very little on him, personally. There must be lots in Japanese, sure, but you "know" what I mean.

Quote:
Next in line is Volume 1 in a series on the tsumego classics.


Is there going to be some sort of level indicator? Can I ask about the overall structure of the collection?

I don't think I've ever written you this, but thank you. I appreciate the effort, dedication and those difficulties I'm aware of.

Take care.

_________________
玄 又 玄

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #9 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:30 am 
Oza

Posts: 3640
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4618
Quote:
Is there going to be some sort of level indicator? Can I ask about the overall structure of the collection?


It is not possible to answer these questions properly, as these questions should not have been asked!

It is important to realise that the ancient problem collections were not a set of graded drills such as we are used to. Instead, each problem was an objet d'art in its own right, and was meant to be discussed by a group of friends. A name attached to the problem (before or after the discussion) could chance the debate by making allusions to ancient stories or heroes that each guest would know - rather as if we were too say "Oh, just like William Tell shooting at the apple." We would all know (I hope!) that his son was involved, the apple was on the lad's head, and it was all due to a horrible bailiff called Gessler.

Try to imagine a go problem where this name might apply. A lone black stone on a clump of white stones that resemble a boy's head? Or imagine instead a problem where the solution resembles shooting an arrow but one that has to be very precise. Both scenarios might fit. The former would be a way of helping you remember the shape of the problem, the latter would be a clue to both finding and remembering the solution.

Ancient Chinese gentlemen lived at a time when paper was very expensive and books were relatively rare. They relied on memory. Indeed, much of their general education involved memorising the classics, such as the Analects. This was called 'backing the books' (turning your back to the books as you recited them to your teacher of father). Go Seigen had to go through this process. Mistakes were punished by a cane across the calves. My own education wasn't that much different, really, so I have a good memory?

What was I saying? Oh yes, we can't be 100% that this is how things worked, but we do know for certain that memorising whole games as a way of preserving them was estemed. We have written records of this. As to the objets d'art element, we have a text from the poet Tao Yuanming 陶渊明 (c. 365 ~ 427) in which he says, "Everyone loves gathering with their neighbours over wine to appreciate newly found documents together, analysing their nuances and meanings.” The same sort of thing is recorded by other writers, with someone showing off, say, a new painting, a rare vase, or even a prized stallion.

There are other go records which strongly hint at this kind of process, for example a guest going on a visit to an exile in the countryside may take along a copy of a new book (the Xuanxuan Qijing even!)

It also follows from this kind of activity that what the group of players would be looking at is not the dross of a simple ko, but a complex line that ends in a under-the-stones. The practice of modern writers saying an old problem is a cook or is flawed because it has a ko variant or multiple solutions quite miss the point. And shame on them!

Another consequence is that guests might take a problem home (in their heads) and recreate it slightly differently. He might even try to improve it (or perhaps simplify it). And so variants arise. I called the Xuanxuan Qijing "Gateway to All Marvels" for several reasons. The most important was probably that it is the most significant go book ever written, because of what it has spawned, and so it is truly a "gateway" to modern go. But another reason was there is no one XXQJ. There are several, and each can be very different. I collected all the variants and ended up with over 460 problems. The oldest original has around 360. So GTAM was meant to refer to this omnibus edition. I also collected all the pro opinions, which quite often contradict each other. Since quite a few of the problems are rated at 7-dan plus, or the like, that's not too surprising. The ancients had their own method of grading. For example, a title along the lines of "Entering the realms of the sublime" or "refining cinnabar" or any other Daoist practice always rells us it's very hard problem (and is also a clue in itself).

What I hoped to recreate for the modern reader was a book that would him to bask in the same joyful sort of environment as the wrinklies of old (but bring your own wine!). To do that, I needed to add a lot of text. So, where the ancient book presents the problem below (White to play) with the simple title "Hooked dagger is released" (鉤戈解) that is probably going to make the modern western reader feel as if he had guzzled the wine before looking at the problem! What I have done therefore, is to add an explanation of what was probably going through the minds of these players of old, and so I am obvioulsy also proving a memory aid and clues.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X X X . . . . . .
$$ | . . X O O O X . . , . .
$$ | . . X O . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . O X . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . O X X . . . .
$$ | . . . X O . O O X . . .
$$ | . . . X O . . O X . . .
$$ | . . . X O . O O X , . .
$$ | . . . . X X X X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------[/go]


The following is what I added to this problem (in the presentation part - there is often more to say in the solution part - omitted here).

Quote:
This one is obviously a graphic. But the dagger (gouyi) in turn is symbolic. It represents Lady Gouyi.

She is the main figure in a still popular tale. She lived in grim times. Her father was castrated for some an offence and then had to serve as a minor eunuch in Chang’an (now Xi’an), which was then the capital of the Han empire. His daughter had some affliction that caused her to keep her fists.

This was an era when belief in omens, witchcraft and necromancy prevailed. The ruling emperor then was Wu who reigned from 141 BC ~ 87 BC. That incredibly long reign was in in itself seen in some supernatural way.

When Emperor Wu was on a hunting expedition in the area where the lady of the clenched fists lived, she was summoned to him for a freak show. But when the emperor touched her hands, her fists miraculously opened up, revealing a jade hook in one of them.

The emperor took this as a good omen and took her as a consort, naming her Lady Gouyi The favour shown her excited jealousy among other families at Court.

Pregnancy soon followed but it stretched beyond the due term and tongues began wagging that the lady was a witch.

But the Emperor suspected it might be a good omen, and eventually it reached 14 months before baby was born. That was the same length as for the legendary Yao, the one who was supposed to have invented go. The Emperor was pleased and showed the dagger lady even more favour. Her new son, born in 94 BC, was named Liu Fuling.

The favour shown to Lady Gouyi and her son led to speculation that the Emperor might demote the Crown Prince (son of the official Empress) and make Fuling the heir apparent. The accusations of witchcraft made Salem look like a tea party. Hundreds of people were executed and both the Empress and the Prince Consort were forced to commit suicide in 91 BC.

The aged and ailing Emperor accordingly did make Fuling the heir apparent, but because Fuling was still far too young to rule, his mother would become his Regent. But the Emperor feared Lady Gouyi was also too young too rule. The memory of Empress Lü seizing power for herself in similar circumstances after the death of Emperor Gaozu (the one mentioned in several problems in this book) about a century earlier was still fresh.

Wu therefore appointed a trusted official, Huo Guang, as regent and ordered the imprisonment and death of Lady Gouyi. She died in 88 BC.

The Emperor explained her death to his attendants by saying that a child emperor with a young mother would lead to unrest, although he acknowledged that his action might be misunderstood by “children and fools.”

There’s a range of possible clues in that true tale to help solve the problem. Witchcraft might be one of them!


This post by John Fairbairn was liked by: ez4u
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #10 Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:43 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 612
Liked others: 148
Was liked: 117
Rank: OGS ddk
KGS: Ferran
IGS: Ferran
OGS: Ferran
John Fairbairn wrote:
It is not possible to answer these questions properly, as these questions should not have been asked!


I can't judge about "properly", but you did answer. And if I hadn't asked, you wouldn't have.

Quote:
Ancient Chinese gentlemen lived at a time when paper was very expensive and books were relatively rare.


I think I've only browsed two "old" collections. Kita Fumiko's and Huang Lonsghi's (the easy volume). The later, with Roman numerals. Both are more... "tsumego"-like.

Quote:
Since quite a few of the problems are rated at 7-dan plus, or the like, that's not too surprising. The ancients had their own method of grading. For example, a title along the lines of "Entering the realms of the sublime" or "refining cinnabar" or any other Daoist practice always rells us it's very hard problem (and is also a clue in itself).


See? You just got me a level for those problems, or a rating.

I'm not asking for anything definite or too specific. I'm asking at what level it makes sense to try solving them. Because, right now, for a 7th dan level, I might as well roll dice. And, well, the structure of the book, you did answer. The one for the collection, not yet. I'm not sure if you want to do one book per collection, or group them by theme, or... I think I understand you want to do a modern edition of the classics, one per original book.

Thanks; take care.

_________________
玄 又 玄

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #11 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 2:06 am 
Beginner
User avatar

Posts: 13
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: IGS 1dan
Hello,
Is a kind of "Christmas version" still in plans?
As Tundra was, I am thinking of buying a copy of the database, but willing to wait a bit if a new update is on the pipe.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #12 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 4:37 am 
Oza

Posts: 3640
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4618
Quote:
s a kind of "Christmas version" still in plans?
As Tundra was, I am thinking of buying a copy of the database, but willing to wait a bit if a new update is on the pipe.


I'd recommend waiting as the current version is much larger - about 122,000 games. I give priority to other projects because I know the latest version will always be available in SmartGo. I know it's a trivial task to make it available online at the same time, but there's an element of wanting to support Anders by giving him an "exclusive", and also a psychological aspect (i.e. laziness). Once I'm in the zone with a book, I like to focus on that obsessively. I got the huge Segoe book out at last, and at the moment I am doing the indexing for Vol. 1 of the Encyclopaedia of Classical Go Problems. It's about 560 pages long, so you can see why it takes a while. Probably I'll do the update once I get that out of my hair.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: GoGoD Summer 2022 edition now available
Post #13 Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:13 am 
Beginner
User avatar

Posts: 13
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: IGS 1dan
Thank you for your answer.

I will take patience then, and meanwhile keep on going through pro games the old way -- I've just finished to replay Shuei's games, from your book, by writing them first on a game record, and only then replaying them on a board. Guess I have to do the same with the next player in my list, Go Seigen.

(I have to say I actually enjoy the whole process, though, so maybe I will stick with it even when I have the database.)

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group