https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20 ... na/003000c
The Kansai Kiin in Osaka seems to have one-upped the Nihon Kiin's promotion of Sumire when she was only ten years old. Let's see how he does.
Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
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ez4u
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Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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John Fairbairn
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
An interesting development, but I wonder whether it's a fair comparison with Sumire.
The Kansai Ki-in's regulations for this scheme say that the recommended player (who has to be under 12) becomes a jun-kishi and does not become a kishi until he/she reaches 2-dan. Jun-kishi is the normal way of saying "semi-professional" and kishi is a fully fledged professional. The way we would put it here, however, might be to say that a 1-dan is a probationary grade. In practice, the player will get only 50% of the game fees, not training subsidy and no health insurance.
However, the candidate's potential is regarded as the most important factor, and Reo had already defeated several pros in even games last year. The actual test is a test game (in this case against Seto Taiki, no less) and this game plus two others are submitted to a panel of the top ten prize-ranking professionals in the Kansai Ki-in. We saw how well pros could judge potential with Sumire, so I'd be amazed if Reo didn't make 2-dan soon.
However, I do remember talking to a Nihon Ki-in official who was VERY sniffy about Kansai Ki-in grades. Rather int he way that European players get sniffy about US grades
Or western players in general get sniffy about Japanese grades ("he's only a Japanese 9-dan" comes to mind again!).
The Kansai Ki-in's regulations for this scheme say that the recommended player (who has to be under 12) becomes a jun-kishi and does not become a kishi until he/she reaches 2-dan. Jun-kishi is the normal way of saying "semi-professional" and kishi is a fully fledged professional. The way we would put it here, however, might be to say that a 1-dan is a probationary grade. In practice, the player will get only 50% of the game fees, not training subsidy and no health insurance.
However, the candidate's potential is regarded as the most important factor, and Reo had already defeated several pros in even games last year. The actual test is a test game (in this case against Seto Taiki, no less) and this game plus two others are submitted to a panel of the top ten prize-ranking professionals in the Kansai Ki-in. We saw how well pros could judge potential with Sumire, so I'd be amazed if Reo didn't make 2-dan soon.
However, I do remember talking to a Nihon Ki-in official who was VERY sniffy about Kansai Ki-in grades. Rather int he way that European players get sniffy about US grades
Or western players in general get sniffy about Japanese grades ("he's only a Japanese 9-dan" comes to mind again!).-
pajaro
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
I read about this new player. I didn't know much about how he was nominated to be a pro. John's post (as usual) provided a clearer picture.
When I read about it, I couldn't help but think that the Kansai Kiin was trying to get ahead of the Nihon Kiin by having a still younger pro. I can't help but think that their standards might not be the same. This said, veteran pros may have a good eye for potential and think that Reo can have a bright future. I am not going to judge this, of course. But the comparison with Sumire is on the table, so I am going to add: yes, Sumire is doing very well, yes, Sumire had a hard time in her first games, and no, becoming a pro by special recommendation does not equal a great performance. Tsuji Hana 2-dan turned pro also by recommendation (*), and she is doing just fine. I would say average for a player her age and experience.
In the end, the answer my friend, is on the goban.
(*) in her case, recomendation for women. I leave the reader to think about this
When I read about it, I couldn't help but think that the Kansai Kiin was trying to get ahead of the Nihon Kiin by having a still younger pro. I can't help but think that their standards might not be the same. This said, veteran pros may have a good eye for potential and think that Reo can have a bright future. I am not going to judge this, of course. But the comparison with Sumire is on the table, so I am going to add: yes, Sumire is doing very well, yes, Sumire had a hard time in her first games, and no, becoming a pro by special recommendation does not equal a great performance. Tsuji Hana 2-dan turned pro also by recommendation (*), and she is doing just fine. I would say average for a player her age and experience.
In the end, the answer my friend, is on the goban.
(*) in her case, recomendation for women. I leave the reader to think about this
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kvasir
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
I am watching his exhibition game with Yu Zhengqi on Pandanet right now. Looks like he knows all the AI josekis and I am not sure who got into trouble but Yu appears to be on the hunt. Fujita Reo has two groups with 1.25 eyes between them 
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CDavis7M
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
I've only watched the beginning so far. A player on OGS Forums provided this link. I haven't seen this Kansai Kiin YouTube channel before but it appears legit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3opwUjVIakM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3opwUjVIakM
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John Fairbairn
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
To be pedantic, this is not an exhibition game (which would be a fast game where the players try to entertain the crowd). This is a commemorative 記念 game with a high dan to mark qualification as a 1-dan, and as such is a long-standing Kansai Ki-in tradition. The players take the game seriously. The time limits used to be two hours each. They used to have two-stone handicaps, then they started using negative handicaps. I don't know yet what conditions were used in this game.
Of course, there must be a "show-off" element to this game, but it would have happened even without that.
Of course, there must be a "show-off" element to this game, but it would have happened even without that.
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kvasir
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
OK, pedantic or not, to me it sounds similar to how university students go to the commencement ceremony instead of the graduation ceremony only because that is what it is called.
There was this announcement on the kansai kiin webpage. I think it might say 1h + byoyomi and no komi.
There was this announcement on the kansai kiin webpage. I think it might say 1h + byoyomi and no komi.
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kvasir
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
He played a game in the Judan preliminary B last night (relayed on pandanet) and it is a good one, a proof that the more prestigious, older, respectable professionals of the past have their value - might I say more than that of gold? His opponent, a senior citizen at the advanced age of 17, edged out a win in an exciting game that featured everything: clever opening, strategy, an attack, a phony ponuki and finally a close endgame. If it was a 9 dan game we could maybe talk about an endgame fiasco but I don't think it is unusual for the more experienced, the teenagers, to gain a few points on less experienced child professionals.
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kvasir
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
First 9 dan scalp 
I didn't watch but Leo(?) played Ushikubo Yoshitaka 9 dan today in the Meijin preliminaries and won!
Since I didn't watch any of the game live I don't have sense of what happened but Ushikubo made a nice resignation problem.
White to kill in upper left corner:
I didn't watch but Leo(?) played Ushikubo Yoshitaka 9 dan today in the Meijin preliminaries and won!
Since I didn't watch any of the game live I don't have sense of what happened but Ushikubo made a nice resignation problem.
White to kill in upper left corner:
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John Fairbairn
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
This makes him the youngest player to beat a 9-dan in official play, I reckon. Sumire was 10 when she did it. Reo will be 10 in April. Both youngsters beat 75-year-olds. (Yi Ch'ang-ho was 12 when he did it but his victim was no less than Seo Pong-su. Yi Se-tol was 13, but again Seo was the fall guy. In China. Chang Hao was 16 when he beat Nie Weiping.)
Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?
Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?
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Elom0
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
I don't mean to cause controversy, but the amount of lack of self-awareness that official must have is stunning. I doubt I would have the discipline not to mention what the rest of the world thinks of Nihon Kiin grades if I was the one talking to him, chastise my disrespect! Or maybe we should send our two opinionated friends on to talk to him、and for those who weren't there to witness their rants by opinionated I mean on the level of Japanese go! And I didn't think the Nihom Kiin could surprise me!However, I do remember talking to a Nihon Ki-in official who was VERY sniffy about Kansai Ki-in grades.
It is a relief that Japan has someone other to rely on than just Sumire and Kotaro in 12 years time, unless the Japanese youth team in the Baduk League starts doing well and I can start having hope that they could carry the flag for Japan.
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ez4u
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Maybe modern kids put their tooth and their smartphone under the pillow?John Fairbairn wrote:... Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Elom0
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Then they get a digital notification saying, 'the digital toothfairy has collected your tooth. collect your 0.001 bitcoin. Upgrade to the Premium tooth fairy today at a special offer for advice on how to invest your Toothfairy Basic Income!'ez4u wrote:Maybe modern kids put their tooth and their smartphone under the pillow?John Fairbairn wrote:... Seems kids that age no longer have to wait for the tooth fairy to make money. Except that we're in a cashless society now. How do the tooth fairies meet their obligations nowadays?
I'm pretty sure that we're going to have the record for largest age gap in a pro match broken.
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kvasir
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
Leo played a game today with another 9 dan in the second round of the same Meijin preliminary as the previous 9 dan. Kurahashi Masayuki is a Kansai Kiin 9 dan that dislikes cucumbers and would have been a cook if he wasn't a pro that is ranked about 120th (in Japan) on the mamumamu list. How can you dislike cucumbers? - you may ask 
It doesn't matter, the game was interesting and possibly something for my pet thread about early troubles. You could say Leo was served up cold as diced cucumber.
At move 91 I thought the game was just over. The game of course continued while there were unresolved areas and certified 9 dan technique was put on display.
There weren't that many big mistakes up to the point I considered that white was in too much trouble. There were four mistakes around -3 points which were shared equally among the players, and two mistakes just over -4 points by Leo. Those two were only that large when compared to hard to see tesuji that had hard to understand conclusions. I don't think any of these "mistakes" are really the reason for Leo's trouble, it is more strategic, the 9 dan outplayed the 1 dan.
It doesn't matter, the game was interesting and possibly something for my pet thread about early troubles. You could say Leo was served up cold as diced cucumber. At move 91 I thought the game was just over. The game of course continued while there were unresolved areas and certified 9 dan technique was put on display.
There weren't that many big mistakes up to the point I considered that white was in too much trouble. There were four mistakes around -3 points which were shared equally among the players, and two mistakes just over -4 points by Leo. Those two were only that large when compared to hard to see tesuji that had hard to understand conclusions. I don't think any of these "mistakes" are really the reason for Leo's trouble, it is more strategic, the 9 dan outplayed the 1 dan.
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kvasir
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Re: Fujita Reo Kansai Kiin Pro Aged 9
It looks like Leo has 9 official wins after adding one today. I think that means he is just one game short of being 1/3 the way to 2 dan.
I guess lot of the older higher ranked players he plays are not as strong anymore as they used to be. He appears to be 4 - 3 against 9 dans and 0 - 4 against 1 dans or those 1 dans could be hungrier for that win. I saw some of his game with a 74 year old 4 dan a not close to 74 year old 5 dan, promoted to 4 dan in 2022, and it looked to me like the 45 dan was winning but maybe slacked off too early and the endgame was in Leo's favor. I don't know if it was a trap, a way of setting up a resignation or it could have been a blunder. At the end there was an unexpected move. I somehow doubt it was a blunder, maybe a way to resign.
I'll make a prediction that Leo will have a win rate over 50% for this year Last year appears to have been 7 - 10, which is 41%.
===Edit
I confused the opponent with someone Leo played earlier.
I guess lot of the older higher ranked players he plays are not as strong anymore as they used to be. He appears to be 4 - 3 against 9 dans and 0 - 4 against 1 dans
or those 1 dans could be hungrier for that win. I saw some of his game with I'll make a prediction that Leo will have a win rate over 50% for this year
Last year appears to have been 7 - 10, which is 41%.===Edit
I confused the opponent with someone Leo played earlier.
Last edited by kvasir on Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.