Japanese Title and League scene

[pajaro]

Is it win twice in a row or win the same title twice?

I thought it was twice in a row. I thought I had read it as "win the title and defend it next year".

According to Sensei's Library, it's win 2 of Oza/Gosei/Tengen/Gosei, in any combination. This doesn't feel right.

And according to the main source, NK's website, it's "各2期" for the previous 4 titles. My understanding is that, for "twice any time", it should be "2回", (回=counter for times), but I am not sure. I have asked 2 Japanese people. Both told me that they don't know how to understand it, they need more context about the igo world. So... I can't really tell what is the rule for promotion here.

[John Fairbairn]

I thought it was twice in a row. I thought I had read it as "win the title and defend it next year".

It is mix-and-match. Any two of the specified titles, even if different, in any order and at any time, not necessarily consecutive (though I vaguely a debate when the system was first introduced as to whether titles earned prior to the new system could count - I can't remember what was decided, but it's moot now).

And according to the main source, NK's website, it's "各2期" for the previous 4 titles. My understanding is that, for "twice any time", it should be "2回", (回=counter for times)

I can't remember the figure now but I recall seeing lists of counters or measure words in Japanese and Chinese that claim at least (?) 300 and 600 respectively. But certainly a lot. Not all are current and they seem to be (very) slowly dying out.

期 is correct for things that have known and usually regular stages/terms/edition/phases (e.g. illnesses, sessions of parliament and lots of other things).

We have quite a few measure words in English you may not be aware of: head of cattle, brace of pheasants, pounds, pints, shots, and the pecks, bushels, gills of my childhood. And a host of collective counters. Anything for sensible people to rely too much on numbers. We had a well-known one the BBC web site in the last day or so: a photo showing a "murmuration of starlings." Inventing collective nouns is a popular English pastime. What would the collective noun be for L19 contributors: an invisibility of contributors; a black hole of contributors; a silence of contributors; a figment of contributors? Over to you

[Elom0]

A quadruple ko of kontributers

[Harleqin]

Off-topic: how do you write on a fan? Remove the axis first, so that you can lay it flat?

[pajaro]

I have seen videos.

Basically, they write on the paper (I don't know the proper name) before attaching it to the axis, so it's perfectly flat.
Not that they remove the paper, but it is written before it's ever attached.

[pajaro]

Back to the Tengen:

the 5th game was played. Kotaro took black and Ida took white. The didn't begin with tengen. What a dull fuseki! Really? Fisrt move 4-4, then opposite corner and then they played a "long joseki". For a long long time, the 4th corner was free.

In the end, Kotaro won by half a move. I wanted Ida to win, because after playing tengen twice... but Kotaro deserves the win too.

Tomorrow he will be 9-dan. But I don't think nobody will ask him about what he prefers the most.

[pajaro]

Today, first semifinal of the Judan.

Shibano and Yo Seiki played, with the Meijin advancing to the next round.

In the other semifinal... Ichiyama again! But a one day game. So fast!
Whatever happens, the final game will be played with the Kisei match ongoing. More Shibano-Ichiriki? Iyama taking on a busy Shibano?

BTW, the Kisei will start next 19th.

[pajaro]

BTW, the Kisei will start next 19th.

My mistake: the female Kisei will start next 19th.

The Kisei has started today.

Ichiriki Ryo Kisei - Shibano Toramaru Meijin. 0-0

[pajaro]

Nobody's commenting, but the Kisei is on course now. 4th game today and tomorrow.

Ichiriki won 1st and 3rd game, and had a good position in the 2nd game too. The whole challenge seemed to be too much for Shibano. But in 4th game, Shibano seems to be better, so who knows what will happen.

[pajaro]

4th game of the Kisei is over.

Ichiriki eventually won that game. At different points, AI gave better odds to both players. But, in retrospect, also considering the rest of the series, it looks like Shibano had little chances after all.

We may have Kisei for a few years.

[kvasir]

It might interest anyone that knows Japanese to hear about the latest establishment in Japan, it's the Ponnuki Information Bureau, which will be broadcasting an hour long program on most(?) Fridays. The second broadcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6b8He9dpr0. The bureau is also on Twitter like everything in Japan.

We may have Kisei for a few years.

Shibano is not out yet! This is a best of 7 match.

It seemed to pay off for Ichiriki to keep a time advantage as the crucial mistakes happened when Shibano was entering byoyomi.

Ichiriki had about 20 minutes when Shibano entered byoyomi after move 140 — a huge blunder!
Ichiriki still had 2 minutes and 49 seconds when Shibano played what looked inexplicable on move 166, adding a move to his group but failing live!

Maybe Shibano thought just living on move 166 was unthinkable but black can't escape and katago claims white wins the capturing race yet black edges out a 2.5 point lead thanks to the squeeze. The players immediately started analyzing living on move 166 but first forget to add the alternative to 166 on the board and then to remove move 166 (confuse the audience). I'm not sure if it was Shibano's judgment that simply living was not good enough, that reading the entire sequence to the end and deciding it was a close game was too much, or if he favored his chances in a do or die situations.

[pajaro]

Yes, it's a best of 7.

Yes, they will sit in front of the goban again.

And I still think that Shibano is done.

About time management, byo-yomi and blunders, I have never understood what's in a player's head when it comes to the watch. They have 8 hours each, they can think also during the other player's time, and they know that they will have to play the crucial moves in one minute. Why don't they save some time for the last stages?

[kvasir]

[...]katago claims white wins the capturing race yet black edges out a 2.5 point lead thanks to the squeeze[...]

Eventually it finds a better way for black and it's black that captures first, thanks to a ko shape in the shared liberties. Incredible stuff!

About time management, byo-yomi and blunders, I have never understood what's in a player's head when it comes to the watch. They have 8 hours each, they can think also during the other player's time, and they know that they will have to play the crucial moves in one minute. Why don't they save some time for the last stages?

Possibly one reason is that the clock is not visible to them during the game, that is they might not have a good idea of how long they have remaining. Still they have played many games with long time controls in similar settings, I'd have though this experience would help them avoid being in byoyomi during a critical part of the game.

I rechecked the stream when thinking about the time management and it's not only that they can't see the clock. The timekeeper is also rather lax when it comes to reading out the seconds and deducting a period. The displayed clock goes down to zero a few times, especially for Shibano, and deducts a period which is then added again. I wonder if this time keeping method hurts the Japanese players when they compete internationally and have to press the clock in time themselves instead of only picking up a stone and make enough motion toward placing it to satisfy a human timekeeper. Obviously it is a pity if a two day game was decided by some fumbling with the clock, same for 3 hour and 5 hour games.

[pajaro]

The winner of the NHK Cup has been announced. And I say announced because the game was actually played before, but it has just been aired in TV.

The finalists were Ichiriki Ryo Kisei and Seki Kotaro Tengen. The winner was Seki Kotaro by the smallest margin possible (W +0.5), and it was surprising for two reasons.

First reason, I expected Ichiriki to win. But according to the game records in go4go.net, Seki has a better record against Ichiriki (3-2 before this game, 4-2 now).

Second reason, is that it was a fast game and even so it was very close. The game was full of small and big kos, and I don't think they had time to calculate all possibilities, so the result might have been a surprise even for the players until the official counting.

[CDavis7M]

Sounds like a fun match. I wish there was a way to watch these games. I tried to look into subscribing at one point but NHK must have some licensing requirements to not offer the service internationally.

These games are covered by the NHK magazine with commentary but I have too many unread books and magazines as it is.