Okay, even I think this is exaggerating

[Elom0]

At 03:26
Maybe by78 and theCannyOnion have found employment there

[pajaro]

I am going to need some help here...

could you elaborate for those who don't follow Korean baduk?

[Elom0]

I am going to need some help here...

could you elaborate for those who don't follow Korean baduk?

All of the members of the Japanese team were underranked at 2 stars, so the entire team was ranked 2, but I think 2.5 is more accurate, and I'm not sure all the Japanese players are quite the same level. In the next highest team, 1st board Shin Minjoon is 4 stars and 2nd board Choi Jeong is 3.5, so it just looks like it was made by our two opinionated friends. Only the best pros like Buying Sangil and Shin Jinseo get 5 stars, although in my opinion they should give Shin Jinseo an extra special 6th star just for him.

Korean Baduk League this year greatly improved their format by adding teams from Taiwan and Japan. It's a round robin among all teams and then they are split into two groups for another mini round robin.

[Elom0]

For example, in the upcoming match between Japan Kiin and Korea Zinc,

On the fourth board, Hong Mujin is rated 3420 on goratings and is 3.5 how on earth is Onishi Ryuhei rated 3301 in goratings 2 stars!? They just made them up for the Japanese team.
Less egregreious is on the fifth board, Park Hyunsoo is, rated 3287, Koike Yoshihiro is rated 3211. So if Park Hyunsoo is 3 stars then Koike Yoshihiro should be about 2.5, not 2.
I'm all for baduk skill level realism, I think Choi Jeong is slightly overranked in both the Korean raings that put her at 17th in Korea and goratings that put her at about 16th in Korea, she's probably closer to about 20 in Korea for example, but goodness me I'm convinced our two opiniated friends made the chart for Japan's team. "What's the average random Japanese up-and coming pro level? okay let's just put it here without checking them individually". Getting to the playoffs is unrealistic but I want Japan to not finish last to prove a point. We'll see what happens in this match then.

[pajaro]

Hmmm... I see your point (more or less).

I know about the Onnion. I read his messages in the Sumire thread when she became a pro. I must have missed him when she started winning non-stop. By78, I don't know, they must be buddies, right?

I get that Japanese players are supposed to be weak, according to Korean standards, or Korean TV, or something. But I guess it's pointless to complain. Players just must prove the onnions wrong. The only way, on the board.

[Elom0]

Hmmm... I see your point (more or less).

I know about the Onnion. I read his messages in the Sumire thread when she became a pro. I must have missed him when she started winning non-stop. By78, I don't know, they must be buddies, right?

By78 was there during the early days of the Following Iyama Yuta thread, talking about how Iyama was overranked to the point Uberdude had to create a separate thread for Iyama's rating, Although I wouldn't 'call out' others members of the forum to criticize them; I personally found their points, quite hilarious and entertaining, partly because it was often largely true in my opinion, haha if a bit exaggerated, but the fact they were able to get so upset about their perceived state of the Japanese scene was almost praiseworthy, haha! At least I agree with the larger idea. For example, the Fujitsu Cup stopped their tournament at exactly when Iyama Yuta was rising up the ranks, which was the worst time possible for Japanese Igo for a myriad of reasons. If you want something to self-destruct, give it to a Japanese culture of management. But I think constructive criticism is better here than just trashing Japan, and right now obvious Japan has turned things around and is once again internationally competitive.

Hmmm... I see your point (more or less).

I get that Japanese players are supposed to be weak, according to Korean standards, or Korean TV, or something. But I guess it's pointless to complain. Players just must prove the onnions wrong. The only way, on the board.

That's why we need more international tournaments, specifically Japan-Korea tournaments, unfortunately Japan tends to conduct bilateral matches with everyone else but Korea, I feel Japan has historically always had the unfortunate habit of looking down on Korea as less cultured, in the case of go focusing on differences like Mickey Mouse time limits as evidence of Korea being 'less professional' while China is, yet in real terms Korea and Japan agree on more things with China such as amateur tournaments not having large prize money, but that's a different subject. Japan could learn a lot from it's former colony if it humbled itself, methinks.

Anyway, that's another reason the new Baduk League is way better. People outside the go community would treat us like a joke until go fully internationalised. You won't find the hilarity of Andy Murray competing only in Scottish tournaments and then declaring himself the world best, so why is that acceptable in go? I can assure you it looks just as ridiculous to people not familiar with go, like PhD's from low-standard universities.

[pajaro]

I don't follow this league very much. There is not much info in English, just some Youtube videos from time to time.

How is the Japanese team doing? BTW, yesterday Fukuoka Kotarou lost on time. Did he lose track of time?

[Elom0]

Mind you, Japan is not always pairing their strongest players, but Japan is yet to win a match, they came very close in the game where it was two-two and they played a 5th decider game and Fukouka Kotaro lost by half a point. The entire Japanese team is a youth team, if Ueno Asami had been playing they would have done better having both masters of speed go on their team instead of just one.

[pajaro]

How is this going?

From time to time, Youtube tries to make me watch Baduk TV and sometimes I fall. But generally speaking, I don't know how are things going. Especially when I don't know who is playing, or past results. It's all in Korean.

[Elom0]

How is this going?

From time to time, Youtube tries to make me watch Baduk TV and sometimes I fall. But generally speaking, I don't know how are things going. Especially when I don't know who is playing, or past results. It's all in Korean.

Let's just say . . . I've been proven completely wrong . . . Japan is yet to win a match . . . But 18 year old Fukuoka Kotaro, winner of international U20 speed competition the Globis Cup, seems to be their best player at shorter time limits, he's usually Chosen as the Ace and as I mentioned earlier came close to giving Japan a win。The title holders are so-so. You could get results in English at igokisen's https://gotoeveryone.k2ss.info/news/kr/kl/20/

[Elom0]

UPDATE I think I am getting pretty excited over this matchup . . . TAIWAN and JAPAN Play tomorow, perhaps the most interesting matchup of the league, yay!

[Elom0]

UPDATE LIVE NOW!

[pajaro]

Finally, Japan got his first win.

They won the first 2 games, and things looked good. But 2 loses after, they had to play a 5th game to break the tie, and Japan won this one.

Even if Japan has lost all matches so far, I'd like to think that the gap with the other teams is not so big. It exists, obviously, but pro play is so high level, that overcoming a tiny gap needs a lot of effort. Kind of improving 0,01" for a top 100 m runner.

[Elom0]

Finally, Japan got his first win.

They won the first 2 games, and things looked good. But 2 loses after, they had to play a 5th game to break the tie, and Japan won this one.

Even if Japan has lost all matches so far, I'd like to think that the gap with the other teams is not so big. It exists, obviously, but pro play is so high level, that overcoming a tiny gap needs a lot of effort. Kind of improving 0,01" for a top 100 m runner.

The main reason is that winning a match requires winning on three out of five possible boards. Look at the win-loss records of the individual players and you'll get a feel for the difference, according to just the KB League game s the average elo of the players in Japan's team is about 150 elo below the Average player in the Korean League. We were taking about 최정先生 being in a slump, but her record is 8 wins 8 losses, exactly average, so her poor form level is 25th in Korea. In her normal form she would be in the top 25% of the KB League, top 13 or 12. But a team where every member was average would finish average, but if every member in their team was at 최정先生'ｓ in-form level they'd win the league easily because of the compounding effects of multiple boards.

[Elom0]

Okay, so the league is finished, and Taiwan won 3 matches, while Japan won only 1 match, which was against Taiwan, so Japan couldn't beat any of the Korean teams. I swear if they don't add Ueno Asami to the team next year . . . I suggested to the KBA to let foreign teams have double the number of players. This allows top players like Iyama and Ichiriki to join without there being any risk of scheduling issues where there aren't enough available players for a match. Next year I'll report on all of the games by Japan and Taiwan over here on L19.