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 Post subject: Current Honinbo title match
Post #1 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2023 3:18 pm 
Gosei

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Ichiriki won the seventh game of the 78th Honinbo title match, winning the title. Ichriki is now Honinbo and Kisei. It was a tough match, with Ichiriki fighting against kadoban three times. The last game was interesting. I haven't seen the whole game but I looked looked at the stream of the first day and at the end Iyama had a 75% winning value according to the engine used, so I thought Iyama was going to win. On the second day I couldn't watch but when I looked at the video on Youtube and skipped to the middle of the video, suddenly Ichiriki had a 85% winning value! I guess Iyama made a big mistake somewhere. I'm happy though for Ichriki.


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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #2 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:35 am 
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It was intense to to watch Ichiyama Ryo spend 55 minutes on move 86(?) while people joining the audience on Pandanet kept suggesting the hane, thinking that it had only been 1-2 minutes :) I don't think you can experience how tense this moment was by only replaying the kifu. But now that you know there was this moment in the game?

It reminds me of how my opponent in a tournament long time ago spent about an hour on two consecutive moves. We where in what I'd like to call the opening. We had 90 minutes and Canadian byoyomi with mechanical clocks to scare people from running down the clock. That must have been very intense! Though, time has eroded the emotion.

Is there any chance Ichiriki will take "Ichiyama" as his Honinbo name? It could be a way to honor Iyama for all their great battles, it could also bring (much needed?) comic relief to the saga of their endless battles.


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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #3 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:27 am 
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If I'm not mistaken, I believe a player would need to hold the Honinbo title longer (5 times in total?) to earn an honorary title.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #4 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 11:44 am 
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That is true for the honorary title. Many title holders have still had a Honinbo name. I don't know if there is any rule about those name, not everyone has a name listed on sensei's but everyone before 1999 has a name listed. Yamashita Keigo and Iwamoto Kaoru have their Honinbo name listed, both won twice.

However, the tournament archive at the Nihon Kiin page only uses the Honinbo name for some of these players and the only pattern I can see is that they wait there at least until they have defended the title before they use their Honinbo name. https://www.nihonkiin.or.jp/match/honinbo/archive.html

It wouldn't surprise me if they all picked a name as part of some sort of a ritual relating to the continuity of the tournament and it being an extension of the Honinbo house. Confucian role ethics are probably more important than a logical interpretation of what rules there could be about assuming and using a Honinbo name.


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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #5 Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:09 pm 
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kvasir wrote:
That is true for the honorary title. Many title holders have still had a Honinbo name. I don't know if there is any rule.


I recently read somewhere, very likely in a book by Mr. Fairbairn, that the name used to be taken after the first title, but that people usually took a while longer these days.

Take care.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #6 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 11:03 am 
Gosei

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I recall Ishida Yoshio and Kato Masao taking a name after winning the title the first time. IMO it probably depends on how much winning the title mweans to the particular player. I imagine Ichiriki might well choose a name representing his finally defeating Iyama and also after ending Iyama's streak of holding the title. Culturally any one could take a new name for any reason, I think. Before the present tournament version of the Honinbo title, when the name went with assuming the headship of the Honinbo House, the Honinbos were numbered according to when they held the title. In modern times the number has only been associated with becoming Honorary Honinbo.


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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #7 Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2023 8:45 pm 
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It is for sure the beginning of the Ichiriki Era. The change from Iyama igo era to the Ichiriki igo era couldn't have symbolically been more fitting than a reversal in game 7 of the final 7-game format of the 本因坊戦, and with Ichiriki Ryo himself being a news reporter at his fathers company, it is even more fitting. No one could have thought of such a neat plot for a novel. In a sense, I felt if Iyama won, the change in format next year would cast doubt on the result of the next honinbou match whether Iyama won or lost, so I guess I was cheering for Ichiriki to barely win, which is precisely what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:43 pm 
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With the new system, I wonder if the Honinbo will keep its prestige.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #9 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 5:24 pm 
Gosei

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The Honinbo title lost stature when the Meijin title tournament was started and again when the Kisei title tournament started. The stature of the title became a matter of the size of the prize.

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 Post subject: Re: Current Honinbo title match
Post #10 Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2023 11:23 pm 
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That may be true.

But those were new tournaments with new prizes. What is happening now is that the Honinbo tournament is changing, a lot. Nothing to do with other tournaments. I think this situation is new, and the hit will surely be big.

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