The book business

[Kirby]

Do you like your job? If so, what are some things that you do to enjoy it? Why do you like it? If not, why don't you like it?

[Joaz Banbeck]

EDIT: this is a copy of parts the 'do you like your job' thread that I made so that I could answer a few questions without hijacking it.
If you have questions about the bookselling business post them here.

Yes, I do like my day job. Sometimes it's more fun than others, but overall it's not a bad way to make a pretty decent living. If I were independently wealthy, would I keep working here? Probably not, but as jobs go it's still about the best I've ever had.

Same here. Mine is brick&mortar used and rare books, BTW.

What I like: Interesting customers, first pick of all the inventory, deductible expenses: computers, supplies, and especially travel.

What I hate: Government bureaucrats, and Amazon penny sellers.

[LocoRon]

What I hate: [...] Amazon penny sellers.

Sorry to be off-topic, but I have to say, I hate those guys too. Great prices, until you see the S&H. And even if you order several things from the same company, you still get stuck with that ridiculous S&H per item. What a scam!

[DrStraw]

Sorry to be off-topic, but I have to say, I hate those guys too. Great prices, until you see the S&H. And even if you order several things from the same company, you still get stuck with that ridiculous S&H per item. What a scam!

I have never had any complaint about Amazon shipping. $3.95 is common and shipping by media mail is around $2.50 (or more) depending on weight. A padded envelope is an extra cost. I got a book in the mail yesterday from Amazon marketplace and the postage cost was $3.25. When I have sold books my standard cost is $3 an sometimes I have been out of pocket on it.

[LocoRon]

Sorry to be off-topic, but I have to say, I hate those guys too. Great prices, until you see the S&H. And even if you order several things from the same company, you still get stuck with that ridiculous S&H per item. What a scam!

I have never had any complaint about Amazon shipping. $3.95 is common and shipping by media mail is around $2.50 (or more) depending on weight. A padded envelope is an extra cost. I got a book in the mail yesterday from Amazon marketplace and the postage cost was $3.25. When I have sold books my standard cost is $3 an sometimes I have been out of pocket on it.

Normally, I have no complaint with Amazon S&H. However, there are bad instances, which I was specifically thinking of; usually by companies or people that have their products listed for extremely low prices ($0.01, usually, but not always), but then charge exorbitant amounts for S&H. For example, I was recently looking to buy some pen refills, and found a good price so I was going to buy a few packs, all from the same company. Each item has a shipping weight listed as 0.8 ounces, and the packaging for pen refills isn't that large, so it should be relatively inexpensive to ship, however S&H was listed as being $20+ for five packs of two refills (because the charge from each individual item was stacked). Perhaps the company would've seen this and refunded my money, however, I didn't want to risk it (nor did I have the money), and I have also had other instances where I know for a fact that I was charged more for S&H than what it cost the company (but still felt like I came out ahead, due to lower price of the product).

I will admit, I've not shipped anything for a long time, so perhaps it is generally more expensive than I think, and perhaps there are behind-the-scene costs I'm not thinking of (buying the shipping package?).

All in all, it's not a big deal, just an aside I felt like posting.

[kirkmc]

Yes, I do like my day job. Sometimes it's more fun than others, but overall it's not a bad way to make a pretty decent living. If I were independently wealthy, would I keep working here? Probably not, but as jobs go it's still about the best I've ever had.

Same here. Mine is brick&mortar used and rare books, BTW.

What I like: Interesting customers, first pick of all the inventory, deductible expenses: computers, supplies, and especially travel.

What I hate: Government bureaucrats, and Amazon penny sellers.

Oh really? Where are you located? Do you not sell online? (Curious because I've been spending a lot of money at Abebooks lately...)

[Stable]

I think we're pretty lucky to be able to grouse about our jobs. Once upon a time you worked every hour you could to make sure you didn't starve.

Having said that ( )I've just come out of a massive downer about my PhD (I'm in the lab at least 9 - 5 and usually longer, and they give me money for it. I call it a job.) so ask me again in a month or two and I'll have a bit more perspective.

My dream job would probably be to own a bookshop. New or used, I don't care. How did you get into that business Joaz? Is it really as relaxed and fun as it looks? Preferably my imaginary shop would also have a room in the back I could rent out to capoeira classes. I'd love to teach capoeira on the side sometime in the future as well, my old teacher suggested I start up a class, but I don't think I'm good enough yet, there's too many capoeira groups in Glasgow for the amount of students and I'm a bit busy with the whole PhD thing.

Worst things about working in science:
When the experiments don't work for months (years) on end.
Finding motivation when the above happens.
Feeling guilty if I don't go into the lab at the weekend.
The pressure of having a boss who works much harder than I do!

Best things:
Flexible working (I even enjoy having to work at 2am sometimes. It makes me feel like a real scientist.)
All the cool stuff (liquid nitrogen, dry ice, genetically modfying stuff so it glows green etc.)
When the experiments work.

I used to be 100% that I'd go on in academic research when I'm done here. Now I'm much less sure, but we'll see. I still might.

[Joaz Banbeck]

What I hate: [...] Amazon penny sellers.

Sorry to be off-topic, but I have to say, I hate those guys too. Great prices, until you see the S&H. And even if you order several things from the same company, you still get stuck with that ridiculous S&H per item. What a scam!

Amazon does not intend it to be scamming you. Amazon hopes that you understand that the real minimum price for a book is 4 dollars ( 1 cent plus minimum 3.99 shipping ) Amazon wants it that way so that they can help their sellers.
45 of the 50 states have sales tax. Sales tax is hard to collect from out-of-state businesses. The vast majority of internet sellers pay no sales tax. Amazon likes this because it enables them to keep the cost low for the sellers on their site.
Sales tax - when paid - is paid on the cost of the item, not its associated shipping and handling. So Amazon arranges things so that much of their sellers's profit comes from shipping. That way the state governments have less incentive to come after them.

Th business model for penny sellers looks like this:

The sellers are often those who have aquired books in huge volume, sometimes at a penny apiece, often for free.

A seller sells a book for a penny. Amazon collects $3.99 from the buyer for a total of 4 dollars.
Amazon collects 15% of the sale. The 15% fee on 1 cent is zero.
Amazon charges the seller a 1.35 closing fee.

So the seller gets 2.65 from Amazon.

The seller pays $2.38 for a one pound package ( or less, if it is very light or if the seller is high volume and uses bulk mail). The seller ends up with $.27 or more profit, less his cost of packing, which is a few pennies when done in volume.

The seller's profit is a minimum of 20 cents per book, maybe even a dollar or more on light items.

Amazon's profit is the $1.35 closing fee.

The real scam victims are often libraries and charities that have large numbers of excess books. There are bookselling companies who specialize in selling those books in huge volume for a penny. Their sales pitch is that they will sell the book and split the profits with the library or charity. They pretend that the library/charity is getting something like 50% to 80%. And technically, they are. The library/charity gets the majority of that 1 penny profit. And the scammer gets 20 cents to a dollar on shipping. That is 95% to 99% of the real profit.


In summary, Amazon sets things up so that high-volume penny booksellers can scam 45 state governments, and gobs of libraries and charities. But not you.

[Joaz Banbeck]

Yes, I do like my day job. Sometimes it's more fun than others, but overall it's not a bad way to make a pretty decent living. If I were independently wealthy, would I keep working here? Probably not, but as jobs go it's still about the best I've ever had.

Same here. Mine is brick&mortar used and rare books, BTW.

What I like: Interesting customers, first pick of all the inventory, deductible expenses: computers, supplies, and especially travel.

What I hate: Government bureaucrats, and Amazon penny sellers.

Oh really? Where are you located? Do you not sell online? (Curious because I've been spending a lot of money at Abebooks lately...)

I'm in San Diego, California. I sell a few books online, mostly those that are either highly specialized or of regional interest.

[kirkmc]

About twenty years ago I wanted to open a bookstore, here in France. I had just come back from a year abroad, where my wife had worked as an expat for a French company, and we had some money in the bank.

Since I knew the back end of the business a bit - writing and publishing - I didn't know the bookselling part, and decided it would be best to get a job in a bookstore and learn the trade. I did that, and stuck it out for almost three years. But I soon realized that I didn't want to be a bookseller, realizing how slim profits were, and how hard one had to worked to make a pittance.

My guess is that this applies, more or less, in any major country. Probably even more so now, as there has been a decline in reading. I enjoyed meeting people and talking about books, but only a small percentage of the customers in the store cared about the books I was interested in. (The store had some 50,000 books in all, and covered everything from religion to books for school, as the later are purchased by parents for kids at high school level.)

It was a good experience, but one that made it clear that working retail was not for me.

[Stable]

I was trying to figure out the costs of running an independent book shop and how many books you'd have to sell per week. I don't know what business rates are like for renting a building, and I'm just guessing at the profit margins, but it's quite scary.

[kirkmc]

I was trying to figure out the costs of running an independent book shop and how many books you'd have to sell per week. I don't know what business rates are like for renting a building, and I'm just guessing at the profit margins, but it's quite scary.

Especially if you're selling new books, and competing with Amazon, B&N and the like. Margins are not that high, and costs are high (especially the cost of having sufficient inventory).

[mohsart]

Well, I'm in the book business, but I guess you allready knew that.

It's really fun and I enjoy it a lot, thankfully Amazon etc don't carry much Go litterature but the marigins are not too big.

Best thing is when I get a shipment of new stuff, but a big order is quite a kick as well.
Worst thing is people bitching about the prices, usually not about the books but the equipment I import from China, they just see what things costs in China and what I charge and figure I must be earning loads and loads of money.
It also happens that they compare completely different items and refuse to accept that eg DC Yunzi have a higher price than SC...

/Mats

[deja]

Well, I'm in the book business, but I guess you allready knew that.

It's really fun and I enjoy it a lot, thankfully Amazon etc don't carry much Go litterature but the marigins are not too big.

Best thing is when I get a shipment of new stuff, but a big order is quite a kick as well.
Worst thing is people bitching about the prices, usually not about the books but the equipment I import from China, they just see what things costs in China and what I charge and figure I must be earning loads and loads of money.
It also happens that they compare completely different items and refuse to accept that eg DC Yunzi have a higher price than SC...

/Mats

I'm guessing shipping costs are a killer on overhead. I've looked into buying equipment directly from China and realized quickly that it's more expensive because of shipping. Bulk purchasing must help somewhat but I can't imagine all that much. I'm just glad it's you guys taking the risks and not me. Seriously, I really appreciate the service you folks provide.

[mohsart]

Well, you have a choise...
Either you buy just enough to sell within a reasonable time, say 6 months and pay way more for shipping than you want, or you can buy more than you have hopes of selling in the shops lifetime and get free or dirt cheap shipping.
Also, domestic shipping, VAT, administrative fees etc all add to the price.

I have been looking into expanding the business and sell tea ware as well, but since I went with the second choise above with the Go, Xiangqi etc, my savings are locked up in the stock.
So I'd have to go with choise one which means a $13 Tea Set would actually cost me $51 plus some fees and other costs that I cannot estmate accurately, so possibly x5 in actual cost.
Which still may be OK since many things costs 1/10 in China.
If you get the kind of quality you thought you'd get, and nothing breaks.

But hell, it's FUN, and as for the books it's a lot easier, but harder to make more than very small money...

/Mats