It is currently Wed Apr 30, 2025 12:17 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Endgame tesuji from 20th Judan game 2
Post #1 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2025 5:03 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 650
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 219
Was liked: 281
Rank: Australian 3 dan
GD Posts: 200
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Cho Chikun (W) vs Otake Hideo on 1982-03-11, position after white 196
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O X X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O . O O X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O O X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O X X X X . X X X O |
$$ | . . X . X . X O X O X O X O . O O O . |
$$ | . O O O O O . X . . O O O O . O X . O |
$$ | . . . , . . O O O , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X c X X X X X X X . . X O X O O O O |
$$ | . a . X O . . . . O O O X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . X O O . . X . . |
$$ | b . . O X X X X . O . O X O . X . X . |
$$ | . O O . O O X . O O O O X O . . X . X |
$$ | O . . O O X X . X O X X X O . O O X . |
$$ | X O O X X . . X X O O O X . O . . O . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X X X X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black to play the best endgame move on the left side.

In the actual game, Otake played 'a'. I wondered about the monkey jump at 'b' instead, but it doesn't work because of the weakness at 'c'. KataGo found a surprising tesuji which is better than the game move.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Endgame tesuji from 20th Judan game 2
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2025 11:34 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1031
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 184
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
I think it is like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O X X X X X X . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . .|
$$ | . X . O O O . O O X . . X . . X X . .|
$$ | . O O . . . . O O X . . . O . X . X .|
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . O X . X|
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O X X X X . X X X O|
$$ | 6 8 X . X . X O X O X O X O . O O O .|
$$ | 5 O O O O O . X . . O O O O . O X . O|
$$ | 7 1 . 3 . . O O O , . . . . O , X . .|
$$ | . X . X X X X X X X . . X O X O O O O|
$$ | . 4 2 X O . . . . O O O X X X X X X .|
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . O O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O X X X X . O . O X O . X . X .|
$$ | . O O . O O X . O O O O X O . . X . X|
$$ | O . . O O X X . X O X X X O . O O X .|
$$ | X O O X X . . X X O O O X . O . . O .|
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X X X X O . . O . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


But if white blocks on the other side then the monkey jump is coming.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O X X X X X X . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . . X O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . .|
$$ | . X . O O O . O O X . . X . . X X . .|
$$ | . O O . . . . O O X . . . O . X . X .|
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . O X . X|
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O X X X X . X X X O|
$$ | . . X . X . X O X O X O X O . O O O .|
$$ | 1 O O O O O . X . . O O O O . O X . O|
$$ | . X . , . . O O O , . . . . O , X . .|
$$ | . X 8 X X X X X X X . . X O X O O O O|
$$ | 6 . 7 X O . . . . O O O X X X X X X .|
$$ | 4 . O O O O . . . . . . O O . . X . .|
$$ | 2 3 . O X X X X . O . O X O . X . X .|
$$ | 5 O O . O O X . O O O O X O . . X . X|
$$ | O . . O O X X . X O X X X O . O O X .|
$$ | X O O X X . . X X O O O X . O . . O .|
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X X X X O . . O . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]


There is a real surprise if white fails to protect with :w8: in the first diagram.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +--------------------------------------+
$$ | . . O X X X X X X . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . . . . .|
$$ | 5 . X O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . .|
$$ | . X . O O O . O O X . . X . . X X . .|
$$ | . O O . . . . O O X . . . O . X . X .|
$$ | 4 3 . . . . X O X X . . . . . O X . X|
$$ | 2 . . . . . O . O O X X X X . X X X O|
$$ | O 1 X . X . X O X O X O X O . O O O .|
$$ | X O O O O O . X . . O O O O . O X . O|
$$ | X X . X . . O O O , . . . . O , X . .|
$$ | . X . X X X X X X X . . X O X O O O O|
$$ | . O O X O . . . . O O O X X X X X X .|
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . O O . . X . .|
$$ | . . . O X X X X . O . O X O . X . X .|
$$ | . O O . O O X . O O O O X O . . X . X|
$$ | O . . O O X X . X O X X X O . O O X .|
$$ | X O O X X . . X X O O O X . O . . O .|
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X X X X O . . O . .|
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
$$ +--------------------------------------+[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Endgame tesuji from 20th Judan game 2
Post #3 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2025 5:37 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 650
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 219
Was liked: 281
Rank: Australian 3 dan
GD Posts: 200
kvasir wrote:
I think it is like this.

Oh, that's nice!

To split hairs, KataGo thinks this way is about half a point better. This is all a bit above my level; I'm just posting it because the first move is so striking.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O X X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O . O O X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O O X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O X X X X . X X X O |
$$ | a . X . X . X O X O X O X O . O O O . |
$$ | 1 O O O O O . X . . O O O O . O X . O |
$$ | . . . , . . O O O , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X X X . . X O X O O O O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O O O X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . X O O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X X . O . O X O . X . X . |
$$ | . O O . O O X . O O O O X O . . X . X |
$$ | O . . O O X X . X O X X X O . O O X . |
$$ | X O O X X . . X X O O O X . O . . O . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X X X X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The point, according to my limited understanding, is that for white to reply at 'a' really is too passive (as opposed to your first variation, which is the better option for white). So KataGo's idea of best play for both sides is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O X X X X X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . O X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O O . O O X . . X . . X X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O O X . . . O . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O X X . . . . . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . O O X X X X . X X X O |
$$ | 4 . X . X . X O X O X O X O . O O O . |
$$ | 1 O O O O O . X . . O O O O . O X . O |
$$ | 2 3 . , . . O O O , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . X . X X X X X X X . . X O X O O O O |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . O O O X X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . X O O . . X . . |
$$ | 5 . . O X X X X . O . O X O . X . X . |
$$ | . O O . O O X . O O O O X O . . X . X |
$$ | O . . O O X X . X O X X X O . O O X . |
$$ | X O O X X . . X X O O O X . O . . O . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . X X X X O . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's loss with letting :b1: be captured is more than made up for by the monkey jump, so this is a full point better than the game move.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Endgame tesuji from 20th Judan game 2
Post #4 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2025 1:26 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1031
Liked others: 25
Was liked: 184
Rank: panda 5 dan
IGS: kvasir
I wanted to find a way to make that move work but I tricked myself somewhere in the variations and thought I had found a way for white to resist the monkey jump.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group