Prokovich game

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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black is staking a lot on this fight, arguably the whole game. If white were able to extend to the center like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...black's game would be a disaster.

So black either has to hane now or threaten something that is big enough to distract white for a move.

My favorite is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 4 . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That is too easy for black, so white will play :w24: differently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . 4 3 . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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dfan
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 ACTUAL GAME: Move 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

You are very welcome! I hope someone else will do one after this game finishes and I can enjoy being on the other side.

Joaz predicted K4 for White now; any other guesses?
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Kirby
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Kirby »

N5?
be immersed
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Kirby wrote:N5?



Black can force this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 6 b . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . 5 3 4 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...and black is threatening things like 'a', 'b', and 'c'. White cannot afford to lose sente.
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Kirby
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Kirby »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:...

...and black is threatening things like 'a', 'b', and 'c'. White cannot afford to lose sente.


Did you have a sente sequence to help white in the corner after K4 in the last diagram that you posted?

I agree that N5 might be dangerous, but I am hesitant to play K4 because it seems like aji keshi a bit.
be immersed
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Kirby wrote:...

Did you have a sente sequence to help white in the corner after K4 in the last diagram that you posted?
...


Sente? Not sure. White lives in gote like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . a 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X 7 . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . 4 3 . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is sort of sente because white now has one weak white group between two weak black groups. White may be threatening 'a'.
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phrax
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by phrax »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:My favorite is this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 4 . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That is too easy for black, so white will play :w24: differently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . 4 3 . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First, thanks to dfan for doing this. I'm finding it fascinating. Second, thanks for the move analysis by everyone, it really helps to see how stronger players think about these positions.

Now, to my actual questions..

In the first diagram, can white expect black to play 25? It seems over-concentrated. To me, it seems like any black initiated move in that space is gote. Plus, white 24 quickly settles the corner and side, and the M4 group has nice aji for later. Doesn't black still need 2 or 3 moves for that side to be reasonably settled without being over-concentrated? And at the peril of misapplying a recent lesson, using tewari analysis, with the white R3-R8 stones, and a black R5 invasion, wouldn't a white Q4 response be wrong (since that might be an overly-aggressive white response, since there are other black stones to help with the invasion? To that point, doesn't white need another move here now?

In contrast, regarding the second diagram, It seems as the white M4 group tries to move out, every black response builds influence into the center (playing well against the top) and weakens the white stones on the right. And with something like white s5, doesn't any move to take the corner weaken those stones as well. Plus the white groups look more disconnected and weaker than black.

All this to be said, I actually like the first diagram as white and expect white 24 to be at Q5. Of course, I can only assume I have flawed positional assessment, and I'm curious as to what it might be :)
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dfan
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 ACTUAL GAME: Move 24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

:sad: Well, it looks like my run of correct predictions has come to a screeching halt. :sad:

For a few moves, at least, I felt that I understood what the two players' goals were. And that led to a few correct predictions. Had those goals stayed the same, my latest prediction of :w24: would have been accurate. But since it is not even close, I must conclude that goals have changed. Or at least they have been subsumed and overridden by new higher-priority goals.

In other words, white is willing to get profit with :w24:, even if it allows :b25:, which would secure the capture of two stones, and makes the invasion at H3 unworkable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 4 . . . . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . C . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Letting black have this means that white no longer considers H3 such a big priority. Presumably, black, also being a pro, has adjusted his priorities in similar fashion. So what has happened in the last few moves that would alter that?

The invasion at H3 used to be a killer because stones on both sides would have been in trouble. Black's goal was to weaken/capture M3 to ensure that it could not make the black stone on the right side of the H3 invasion weak. It appears that white believes that black has accomplished this.

My guess is that there may be a tacit understanding of a trade. I think that both sides undestand that now H3 is met by M5, which results in black capturing 2 white stones and black capturing 3 black stones. It looks something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . 4 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 3 . 2 . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 1 . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


From black's point of view, if he can get a tradeoff, then he does not have to worry about it as much. He will get a living group on the lower side one way or another.

All of the above is my best attempt to rationalize why the goals centered around H3 are no longer of primary importance. To get back on track, I want to divine what the new goals are.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 3 . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O B . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . C . X . O . B . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's newest problem, now that white has secured the right side, is that white could run with :w26:, thereby leaving the marked stones in danger, and renewing the threat of H3. My solution would be to play L5 myself. But as Phrax points out, it is gote and perhaps overconcentrated.

Can we find an answer to it that is not both gote and over-concentrated?

Any of the marked moves below would keep the tactical balance in the lower side in black's favor. None of them look overconcentrated, but they are clearly gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . S . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . S . . . S . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then there are moves like those below that are sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . S . . . . . . . X . S S . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


... but they all look like aji keshi.

{sigh} I'm stumped. I'll stick with my prediction of L5.
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Magicwand
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Magicwand »

below seems only move black can make.
everything else seems subpar.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 2 . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Magicwand wrote:below seems only move black can make.
everything else seems subpar.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 2 . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I looked at that. It seems to leave the K3 stone a tad unsupported. White can now play H3:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 2 . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 3 . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Magicwand »

i thought about that but that invasion look like an overplay.
he can play at 'a' but still it look bad for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 5 . 4 . 2 . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 3 . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 ACTUAL GAME: Move 25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Support for the upcoming fight, followed by the obvious defense, and the net.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 3 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Magicwand »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Support for the upcoming fight, followed by the obvious defense, and the net.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 3 2 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


there is two things that is wrong in above quote.
first..playing 26 is ajikeshi. i wouldnt want to play such move to try to capture the black stones.
second..after ajikeshi net still doesnt work.

below variation is what i would play.. and i think it is good for white.
since black played 25 and if white plays 26 then below picture is pretty hard to avoid.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 2 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 7 6 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . X . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"
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