First win over a 14K in an even game

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:45 pm

Well, I haven't posted a game in awhile, so I figured I'd post this. Any comments?

judicata · Post by **judicata** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:44 pm

Congrats. Just some random thoughts:

7 - Don't do this. You won't die, but you could always get a better result with a knight's approach or one point high approach. Heck, even the 3-3.

65 - Why? What does this move do? To make a base, just make a two point extension on the third line (Here, J17). Generally, avoid playing on the second line in the opening unless you have a clear reason to.

83 - This is not a good move, but your opponent responded incorrectly. White can hane, cutting the stone off from the K18 group, which would then be in big trouble.

101 - Nice move - you aren't afraid to hane on the more dangerous-looking side.

133 - Generally, attaching is for defense, not attacking. So the proverb says you shouldn't touch a weak stone (and a diagonal, as in move 7, is usually considered "touching"). Here, black can profit by taking away white's base. Here, it worked out okay for you.

257 - Both players missed the snapback. Black can cut with M4. If white captures, black capture 4 stones.

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:46 pm

A few comments from the beginning of the game.

Judicata is right about P3. After he pushes down against your stone, it is very weak--your only choices are to abandon it--the initial play becomes absurd, or make it heavy--easy to attack.

11: R5 is not wise. You have one weak group here, and you are playing to create another. Get in the habit of asking yourself "is this group weak?" You should certainly try to avoid ever having two weak groups close to each other. Your opponent will be able to build up strength attacking one, then use it to hurt the other group.

15: Instead of S4, I think I might extend up the right side perhaps to R9. That gives you a bit more room, and you can always play later at S4 if you absolutely need eyes.

23: It feels like you're trying to attack white here, but this can't work well. You can only attack where you have some strength. Your group on the right is ok, but not strong, while the group on the left can be attacked, and white will profit from doing so. Maybe play K3 to make yourself more secure. Note that white gives you a gift at :w24:

--he goes easy on your weak group.

33: The only move. Remember moves like these.

There are several places where you could play on the right to shore up that small black group in the lower left. I think I'd take R9 as the place to play.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:57 pm

7: D15. White ignored you; will you stand for that?

As mentioned, :b7:

as played is not good. Do not play the "armpit hit". It is only a good idea if you are trying to make life for a group and you have no other options-- and usually if you find yourself in that position you made a mistake earlier.

11, 15, 17, 19: each of these is bad. 11 abandons two stones that need a base. 15 goes the wrong way; get your eyes in a big space, not a small space. 17 is endgame, about 200 moves too early. And 19, which is the direction that 11 should have been in, should not touch a stone.

Hope that is not too harsh

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:14 pm

257 - Both players missed the snapback. Black can cut with M4. If white captures, black capture 4 stones.

Could you show me what you mean by 257?

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:16 pm

hyperpape wrote:A few comments from the beginning of the game.

Judicata is right about P3. After he pushes down against your stone, it is very weak--your only choices are to abandon it--the initial play becomes absurd, or make it heavy--easy to attack.

11: R5 is not wise. You have one weak group here, and you are playing to create another. Get in the habit of asking yourself "is this group weak?" You should certainly try to avoid ever having two weak groups close to each other. Your opponent will be able to build up strength attacking one, then use it to hurt the other group.

15: Instead of S4, I think I might extend up the right side perhaps to R9. That gives you a bit more room, and you can always play later at S4 if you absolutely need eyes.

23: It feels like you're trying to attack white here, but this can't work well. You can only attack where you have some strength. Your group on the right is ok, but not strong, while the group on the left can be attacked, and white will profit from doing so. Maybe play K3 to make yourself more secure. Note that white gives you a gift at --he goes easy on your weak group.

33: The only move. Remember moves like these.

There are several places where you could play on the right to shore up that small black group in the lower left. I think I'd take R9 as the place to play.

Thanks for the insight. I see what you mean. ...I think. I guess my next game will tell me whether I understood it or not.

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:19 pm

daniel_the_smith wrote:7: D15. White ignored you; will you stand for that?

As mentioned, as played is not good. Do not play the "armpit hit". It is only a good idea if you are trying to make life for a group and you have no other options-- and usually if you find yourself in that position you made a mistake earlier.

11, 15, 17, 19: each of these is bad. 11 abandons two stones that need a base. 15 goes the wrong way; get your eyes in a big space, not a small space. 17 is endgame, about 200 moves too early. And 19, which is the direction that 11 should have been in, should not touch a stone.

Hope that is not too harsh

In hindsight, I see exactly what you mean. I guess I was falling into the old newbie "don't let your opponent get territory" stance. It's a habit that cost me dearly when I played a 5K the other day IRL. I'll try not to make any more moves like that. And no, it's not harsh at all! Sometimes you have to tell it like it is lol.

@everyone: Thanks for all the help! It means quite a lot! :salute:

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Is it just me, or is there still an enormous ko on the board at the end of the game?

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:23 pm

Redundant wrote:Is it just me, or is there still an enormous ko on the board at the end of the game?

*smacks my own forehead* No, you're right. I see one in the upper right hand corner. Wow, I can't believe I missed that. Thank you for pointing that out.

Post by **Solomon** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:32 pm

Several things missing at the end of the game:

S19 threatens to kill the top right corner.
J18. If W tries to save by playing H18, then B can play L18 and kill N19 in a ko. The best B can do is to ignore J18 and play L19 -> H18 -> M18, but the top is damaged severely.
N6 and O7 are worth points.

judicata · Post by **judicata** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:18 am

hailthorn011 wrote:
257 - Both players missed the snapback. Black can cut with M4. If white captures, black capture 4 stones.

Could you show me what you mean by 257?

I meant to say M14.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | O X X . X . X . . X . . X O O . . . . | $$ | O O X X . X O X X O . X X O O O O O . | $$ | O X X X X O O O O O . X O X X X X O O | $$ | O O O O . . . . O X X X O O O X . X O | $$ | . . O . O O O O # O O 1 . O X X X X X | $$ | O O O O X X X X 2 O X O . O O X . X . | $$ | . . X X O O . . X X X X O O O X X . X | $$ | . X X . X O . X X O X O O X X X O X . | $$ | X . X X X X X O O O O O X X O O O O . | $$ | . X O X O O O . . . O . O X O O X O O | $$ | . O O X X X O . O O . O . O O X X X O | $$ | . . O O X X O O X X O . O . O X . . X | $$ | . O O X X . X O X . X O . X X X X . . | $$ | . O X X X X O O X X X O O X X O X . X | $$ | . . O O X O . X . X O . X O X O O X . | $$ | . . . . O O . X . X . . X . X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O O X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

3 at

.

hailthorn011 · Post by **hailthorn011** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:44 am

judicata wrote:
hailthorn011 wrote:
257 - Both players missed the snapback. Black can cut with M4. If white captures, black capture 4 stones.

Could you show me what you mean by 257?

I meant to say M14.

$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . |
$$ | O X X . X . X . . X . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | O O X X . X O X X O . X X O O O O O . |
$$ | O X X X X O O O O O . X O X X X X O O |
$$ | O O O O . . . . O X X X O O O X . X O |
$$ | . . O . O O O O # O O 1 . O X X X X X |
$$ | O O O O X X X X 2 O X O . O O X . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X X X X O O O X X . X |
$$ | . X X . X O . X X O X O O X X X O X . |
$$ | X . X X X X X O O O O O X X O O O O . |
$$ | . X O X O O O . . . O . O X O O X O O |
$$ | . O O X X X O . O O . O . O O X X X O |
$$ | . . O O X X O O X X O . O . O X . . X |
$$ | . O O X X . X O X . X O . X X X X . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O X X X O O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . O O X O . X . X O . X O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . . O O . X . X . . X . X O . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O O X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . . . | $$ | O X X . X . X . . X . . X O O . . . . | $$ | O O X X . X O X X O . X X O O O O O . | $$ | O X X X X O O O O O . X O X X X X O O | $$ | O O O O . . . . O X X X O O O X . X O | $$ | . . O . O O O O # O O 1 . O X X X X X | $$ | O O O O X X X X 2 O X O . O O X . X . | $$ | . . X X O O . . X X X X O O O X X . X | $$ | . X X . X O . X X O X O O X X X O X . | $$ | X . X X X X X O O O O O X X O O O O . | $$ | . X O X O O O . . . O . O X O O X O O | $$ | . O O X X X O . O O . O . O O X X X O | $$ | . . O O X X O O X X O . O . O X . . X | $$ | . O O X X . X O X . X O . X X X X . . | $$ | . O X X X X O O X X X O O X X O X . X | $$ | . . O O X O . X . X O . X O X O O X . | $$ | . . . . O O . X . X . . X . X O . O X | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X O O X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

3 at .

I can't believe I'm still missing things like this. Thanks for pointing it out.

judicata · Post by **judicata** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:22 pm

hailthorn011 wrote:
I can't believe I'm still missing things like this. Thanks for pointing it out.

Next time I post a game of mine for review, you may very well find that I missed something like this too

.

Life In 19x19

First win over a 14K in an even game

First win over a 14K in an even game

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