It is currently Thu May 01, 2025 3:12 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #21 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:58 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 18 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Araban: rats, you were right :-P

And I even slipped on the joseki order when I played the 1st line hane, though white kindly played the response anyway.

Looks like once this joseki is done we're going to have a pretty rough fight. If I'm correct it ends in two unstable groups: one for each side...

In any case, I'll be glad to get out of joseki and into real play.

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #22 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:40 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 19 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Captures the 2 corner stones.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #23 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:11 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 20 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought long and hard and really wanted to play E14 here (anxious to get out of joseki), but I couldn't see a way to make my F18 group live without running along the 2nd line and giving white a huge wall.

I guess this is joseki for a reason.

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #24 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:38 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 21 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O W . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here's another possibility, but I prefer the my variation as it leads to more weak groups, fighting, and chaos - suits my style and certainly better for White in a handicap game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 21 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 2 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 5 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #25 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:18 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
Sorry I wasn't around for a few days. I was too busy playing go (IRL) to play go (internet).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 22 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O B . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #26 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:07 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 22 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X O O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #27 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:30 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
For lloydv.

This is the joseki, let me know if you disagree:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O X X O O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 O 1 . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #28 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:55 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
Proposed joseki continuation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 24-30 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 . . O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O X X O O X . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 O 1 . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(Edit: removed captured stones from diagram)

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #29 Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:38 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
I suppose I shouldn't have hoped for a joseki mistake in a correspondence game. The continuation is this, but I worry this might be too easy for Black:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm considering this probe to build some strength in an attempt to attack the top group as well:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, if I am not careful with this I might just end up giving up a lot of profit for a nebulous attack. Need to think and read this through...

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #30 Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:31 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 31 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After a night's sleep the worries in my previous post seem like idle fancies. This point simply must be played, And attacking the top group is a fool's plan.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #31 Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:01 am 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 32 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm actually pretty happy with the joseki result here. White has one group sealed in the corner and has a floating group without eyes to worry about. Black is stable on the top and has options with the left group.

White has sente now.

I wouldn't be surprised to see white put pressure on my left-side group here before approaching the bottom left. If white approaches first at a/b/c I will play a long pincer at d to help stabilize my left side group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 32 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #32 Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:44 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 32 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Usually this is 1 space further but I want to mix things up a little here. I can't see how to punish this myself so this should be ok in a handicap game. I can't give him too many free non thinking moves.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #33 Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:52 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 34 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Closer than I expected white to come in at, but my response is the same. Black needs to avoid being sealed in.

If white tries to cut...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 35-42 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 35-42 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . b . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O B 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 7 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I might still be able to break through with the aji at A and B...

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 35-43 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 O B 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 7 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 10 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #34 Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:14 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Sorry for the delay.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 35 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The cut seems to work...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 35 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 35 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X 3 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 2 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 4 5 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Question is, is this good for me?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 35 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 7 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems okay, certainly better than haneing otherway and having to worry about 2 groups.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #35 Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:41 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 23
Location: Nagoya, Japan
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 1
Rank: JPN 9K
KGS: LV3
No problem, I disappear from time to time as well. :-)

...I should mention I went from [8k?] to [5k?] on KGS yesterday.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As I noted with my last move, I'm not afraid of this cut. I either stabilize on the side or white lets me into the center.

_________________
Learning go in Japan.

My go blog (mostly in Japanese): http://komoku.tumblr.com
My other blog: http://nihonshock.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/lloydvincent

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #36 Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:44 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Hide Diagram Code

Is this possible? I wonder.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #37 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:27 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Not for the players:

Isn't Aphelion missing the following?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I noticed he did not consider this atari in his previous analysis either ...

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #38 Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:27 am 
Judan
User avatar

Posts: 5546
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 1104
Was liked: 1457
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Marcus wrote:
Not for the players:

Isn't Aphelion missing the following?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I noticed he did not consider this atari in his previous analysis either ...



I can't imaginee that Aphelion would plan on :w4: as shown above, for it clearly does lose. I suspect that he is looking at the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X X W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which looks like seki at first...

But white can force ko, I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black cannot play a or b.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . e d . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 X O X . . g O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X X X W h O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 O a X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black appears to be ahead in the liberties race, but he cannot play either 'a' or 'b' immediately, so he must fight the ko. White has ko threats at 'c', 'd', 'e' and 'f'. Black has ko threats at 'g' and then 'h'.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #39 Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:44 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 348
Liked others: 16
Was liked: 31
Rank: KGS4k
KGS: CSamurai
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Marcus wrote:
Not for the players:

Isn't Aphelion missing the following?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 36 Prisoners: B=0, W=2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I noticed he did not consider this atari in his previous analysis either ...



I can't imaginee that Aphelion would plan on :w4: as shown above, for it clearly does lose. I suspect that he is looking at the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X X W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which looks like seki at first...

But white can force ko, I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black cannot play a or b.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . e d . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 X O X . . g O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X X X W h O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 O a X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black appears to be ahead in the liberties race, but he cannot play either 'a' or 'b' immediately, so he must fight the ko. White has ko threats at 'c', 'd', 'e' and 'f'. Black has ko threats at 'g' and then 'h'.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black cannot play a or b.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . e d . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 X O X 5 . g O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X X X W h O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 O a X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White plays 'There Is No Ko', to keep black from being able to win. From here..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black cannot play a or b.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . e d . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X c . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 1 X O X 5 . g O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X X X W h O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 O a X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X X f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:w7: at :w1:

Black at G has no teeth. Ko is illusory.

But, unfortunately, in Aphelion's first read through, he did miss this line. However, since it is clearly a bad play for black, I suspect we'll see the atari underneath, and pushing from behind, which, while painful, does fix the weak group problem.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 71. Lloydv [9k] vs Aphelion [5k]
Post #40 Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:14 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Oh crap I think I misread badly:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Uh oh...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . . O O X O X . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O X . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 5 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I need to think about how to deal with this now. W7 at 8 seems to be the strongest resistance, but I need to be 100% certain it works before playing it. It doesn't look good now...

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group