Hrmm...

One of three possibilities:

1. White made a reading mistake and doesn't realize I can capture his two white stones.
2. I've made a reading mistake and this will end horribly for me when I try to capture.
3. White has decided that his top moyo is worth more points than the paltry bottom territory.

Although I'd like to give white more credit, I think #1 is the most likely. If white wanted sente, he could have just withdrawn when I first attached. It would have amounted to about the same thing.

...

Anyway, I have a good move in mind. Combine ruining white's moyo a bit with saving my two stones and capturing white's.

This is what I'm thinking:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 1 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O 2 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . X 4 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White can also play boldly and try to lure me in with a ko. But I can treat this as just a forcing move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 1 2 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Notice that this threatens to save the two black stones, so if white ignores, 'a' and 'b' are miai for saving the two black stones. Which means it's entirely acceptable for white just to take sente again. White can reinforce his moyo, or whatever else he wants to do. But this is definitely the largest move for me. (I say without actually counting).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 1 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O a O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . b O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Have you tried counting?

Wow, you really need to give White more credit than that. This is a pretty basic liberty counting issue.

i am thinking they both miss the real point of this game.
whomever gets the sente and going to the middle will win this game.
i dont know exactly how to solidify the middle...but below seems to be one of the option.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm77 Move 77 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 6 . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 1 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O 2 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . X 4 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not since I last showed it. I'll do a count before the next move or two. But I did a count when I first started the sequence on the bottom, and I didn't think things had changed enough for the largest move on the board to have changed. Though white might get two moves in a row to secure his moyo, so maybe that was a mistake, dunno.

I accept this trade. Securing the left side is worth more then the bottom.

I count White up by about 25 on the board after the last move. There's still 15 points to overcome, which is very hard, but if White can make something happen on the right then its his game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm78 Move 78 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . b . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | w w O O O O . w . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . b . . . . X O w w |
$$ | . . . . . . . . w . . b . . b . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . w . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . w O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . w . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . w O . . . . . . X . . w . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . w . . . . |
$$ | w O X X . . . X . . . . . . w O . . . |
$$ | b X O , X X X O . O w w w O O , O w w |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . . X w . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b w . . . . w b X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, so:

White:
Left: 55
Bottom: 10
Right: 30
Komi: 5
Total: 100

Black:
Bottom Left: 25
Bottom Right: 5
Top Left: 10
Top Right: 55
Total: 85

So on the board right now white is winning by like 15 points. But I have sente. So I'm a bit behind but I have control to make good things happen. I'm behind enough that I think trying to live with that G11 stone is called for. I just don't see gaining 15 points elsewhere on the board.

I'm usually pretty terrible at invasions, but we'll see how it goes. If I screw up, it should give me back sente, so not too much harm done. Also, there's too many weird possibilities, so I'm not going to post any continuations for the invasion just yet.

Basic idea right now is to threaten to live on the edge, and then get some stones towards the center for essentially free. I'll hope I see something after that. I can also poke at the boundaries of the moyo from the inside, but every time I do that I give white basically 1 point if those stones die, since white would have to close off the boundary eventually anyway.

I'll list some counting of end game moves to show that, while large, they aren't enough to bring this game even just yet.

Analyzing the bottom, white has an open skirt, but if I try to take advantage of it, the aji comes back to bite me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O 4 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 5 X 2 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I need to capture at J4 before I can take advantage of the open skirt. White may or may not decide to defend his skirt then. But either way the size of J4 seems pretty small right now. Better to save it as a ko threat, I think.

This end game move here is gote for both sides with a sente followup for both sides. Don't remember all my end game rules, but for here it's easy: just assume that either side gets their sente followup. So I'm going to say it's worth 5 points in gote for whoever plays here first, so it's a 10 point move in gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ X . . . . . X X 3 . |
$$ . . . . . . X O 1 7 |
$$ . . . . . . . O 2 5 |
$$ . . . X X . O . 8 6 |
$$ , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ , . . . . X X O 8 6 |
$$ X . . . . . O . 2 5 |
$$ X . . . . . X X 1 7 |
$$ . . . . . . X O 3 . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

If black goes first, he has a gote move with a sente followup, so black +5 points here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . 8 6 |
$$ . . . . . . O . 2 5 |
$$ O . . . O O , O 1 7 |
$$ . . . O . O X X 3 . |
$$ . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

If white goes first, and I ignore to take sente, white messes up the corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ O . . . O O , O 3 . |
$$ . . . O . O X X 1 . |
$$ . . . . O X . X 2 5 |
$$ . . . . . . X . 6 . |
$$ ------------------[/go]

So this is worth 11 points, I think(?)

This is a hard position, so I'm not sure. Fudging things a bit to try and balance out gote/sente issues:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . O .
$$ | 5 3 1 X X X O . .
$$ | 4 2 O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . O
$$ | . . . . . . . . O[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . . .
$$ | 6 X 2 . . . . O .
$$ | 3 4 1 X X X O . .
$$ | 7 5 O O O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . O
$$ | . . . . . . . . O[/go]

Looks like only a handful of points. Less than 5?

I don't see a way for his stone to live. This is just too deep. Perhaps he was hoping I would hane and leave cutting points.

Honestly I don't think this can live. I've tried several different variations, I just don't see it happening. But it also feels a bit silly to give up before actually trying. There are some nice forcing sequences near the middle that should let me build up eyespace for at least one eye.

If this fails like I think it will, I'll see if I can find a sente sequence or two and lose with a very small, but reasonable margin (like 5 points) and let Kerby know.

I still don't see life for him.

If I were playing reasonably I would solidly connect, treating this like a peep. I'm not playing reasonably, though, so I have to make moves that aren't stable, but have the possibility of contributing towards eye space.

I don't think white should try to cut. If he does, I get some strong forcing moves.

I have to be careful, but I still don't see a way for Nums to make life. I chose this move to keep connected as best possible. Here's some of what I was looking at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . 1 2 , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 9 3 O 6 . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 7 4 5 . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . 8 . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I assume after this Nums would choose a,b, or c each of them are tricky but I don't think he can make life.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . c . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . a . b . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . X O , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O 1 O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Still thrashing around. Something like this is what I'm thinking. Some combination of these moves maybe. I feel like white is responding too laxly, and this is becoming a life and death problem that is solvable. Just really, really hard.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . 4 5 , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O 8 . 6 O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . 9 O . . 7 . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Only move. If Nums lives in here I will end the game. Its hard to live but also hard to kill We'll see how he plans on living.

This is almost manageable.

This might involve some wishful reading, but this is the general idea.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . 3 4 , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 . 5 O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 O 9 7 6 . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O 0 8 . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . 6 . 9 . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X . 3 . 7 8 . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X 5 4 X 1 O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X 2 . X O , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X O . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But it's not quite 2 eyes, and I still don't see a way to escape or gain other points on the outside.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . 0 O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O 8 9 , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O 5 4 7 X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O . O 1 X 2 O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O X 3 X . X O . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X X O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O . X O , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . X O . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X O . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O O . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But white has been responding pretty passively so far, so I'll keep making sente forcing moves and see if he doesn't respond differently than I expect, or if there's a way to get this to work that I don't see yet. I think the 1-2 exchange is the least forcing of the moves, so I'm going to leave that for later when I can think about it some more.

Are you sure they're passive moves and not moves that aim to allow you as few (useful) forcing moves as possible?

Entirely possible. But they feel pretty passive. Or rather, it feels like he's treating my moves like they're reasonable mid game moves, but he has enough surrounding strength that he could be more aggressive with his responses.

I still don't have two eyes, though, so he can't be going too wrong, eh?

White's moves don't feel passive to me. They are the exactly type of move I would play if I feel confident and want to kill something 100% with no mishaps.

I dunno, perhaps I just don't know what I'm talking about. Invasions, both the invading and the defending, isn't something I'd consider a strength of mine. They follow different rules from normal fights, and I'm not especially good at them...

But things like 84 feel pretty passive to me. I don't mean it as an insult or sabre rattling or anything. I'm not in a position to lecture Kerby about much of anything. It's just literally what I think right now; a straight up mind dump for all the kibitzers to mock or praise as appropriate.