Recent rules debate on Baduk TV

[xed_over]

http://www.starbaduk.com/24475

[Jordus]

IMO the pass is a move just as important as placing a stone on the board.. if both players missed the atari and passed then that white group is alive because the game is now done... both players accepted the current board position as final... and gone to counting... so white wins...

[Harleqin]

I think that in almost all rule sets, there is a provision that the players have to confirm the result in the end. After that confirmation, the result cannot be changed. This is important, since further actions and tournament proceedings will depend on the result.

[RobertJasiek]

Korean rules are very peculiar concerning the game ending. As long as we do not see the current Korean rules of play AND tournament rules translated to English, we cannot know at all what the correct dispute ruling should be. Note that the 1992 rules were changed in the meantime but I have not seen them in English yet, the most unfortunately.

[ZeroKun]

What an odd place to end the game, the group in atari doesn't really concern me, there's also a point up on top after the liberties have been take away from white's group as there is a false eye.

[Bill Spight]

What an odd place to end the game, the group in atari doesn't really concern me, there's also a point up on top after the liberties have been take away from white's group as there is a false eye.

There are two points on top.

[Bill Spight]

Korean rules are very peculiar concerning the game ending. As long as we do not see the current Korean rules of play AND tournament rules translated to English, we cannot know at all what the correct dispute ruling should be. Note that the 1992 rules were changed in the meantime but I have not seen them in English yet, the most unfortunately.

Yes, we need to know what the rules actually say. Also, I think that we need a proper accounting of the events. What I have seen reported so far sounds questionable.

[freegame]

my opinion

... Then on neutralised time, more dame and teire may be filled quickly in continued alternation.

Therefore, according to EGF rules white just needs to connect during dame filling because it is a teire.

[RobertJasiek]

To avoid trouble, before signing the result sheet.

[xed_over]

What an odd place to end the game, the group in atari doesn't really concern me, there's also a point up on top after the liberties have been take away from white's group as there is a false eye.

There are two points on top.

don't think this is the final board position...

In this game, they kept playing after black atari-ed, but neither of them saw the atari till the video check up.

[xed_over]

http://www.baduk.or.kr/news/homenews_vi ... 11&frpg=MN

[nagano]

I'm rikugo1 on Starbaduk. I've posted the game record here, though it may generate more questions than it answers.

(;SZ[19]EV[µÚ4½ìGGÅÄÂô±­ÔªÀÏÓëÅ®ÆåÊÖÀÞ̨ÈüµÚ17¾Ö]DT[2010-09-24]PC[]KM[6.5]US[ÆåÊ¥µÀ³¡]SO[weiqi.tom.com]C[http://weiqi.tom.com
ÆåÊ¥µÀ³¡-->´óÈüÖ±²¥]PB[Kim Yun-Yeong]BR[1P]PW[An Kwan-Uk]WR[8P]RE[W+0.5]
;B[qd];W[dc];B[pp];W[dp];B[ce];W[od];B[oc];W[nc];B[pc];W[dg];B[nd];W[mc];B[ne];W[jc]
;B[cg];W[df];B[cf];W[de];B[cd];W[dd];B[dh];W[eh];B[di];W[ei];B[dj];W[qj];B[je];W[le]
;B[fg];W[hd];B[he];W[eg];B[kd];W[kc];B[id];W[ic];B[gd];W[hc];B[jh];W[ge];B[hf];W[gf]
;B[qh];W[qn];B[np];W[nf];B[of];W[me];B[ng];W[mf];B[oe];W[lh];B[jj];W[rp];B[ql];W[on]
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;B[rn];W[qo];B[kl];W[cn];B[dr];W[cq];B[fq];W[ko];B[ro];W[rm];B[qm];W[so];B[pn];W[sn]
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;B[bm];W[cm];B[bn];W[bo];B[bk];W[hg];B[gg];W[ff];B[hh];W[ig];B[jg];W[if];B[ie];W[gh]
;B[ih];W[fh];B[jf];W[eq];B[ep];W[er];B[fr];W[fl];B[es];W[dq];B[em];W[gl];B[oh];W[oi]
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;B[gg];W[no];B[jr];W[js];B[ks];W[kr];B[ms];W[hj];B[il];W[ek];B[el];W[ds];B[rs];W[ki]
;B[ij];W[op];B[nq];W[oo];B[hk];W[gj];B[sl];W[sm];B[ld];W[md];B[lc];W[lb];B[lj];W[mj]
;B[mh];W[kj];B[lk];W[li];B[om];W[fs];B[gr];W[eo];B[go];W[fp];B[gq];W[pi];B[ej];W[fj]
;B[lm];W[oa];B[pa];W[na];B[ln];W[lo];B[pk];W[pg];B[pf];W[kk];B[mk];W[nk];B[nl];W[gs]
;B[hr];W[oq];B[or];W[ji];B[ii];W[is];B[ks];W[hs];B[gm];W[hi];B[hl];W[jk];B[ik];W[ok]
;B[ni];W[qk];B[sr];W[sq];B[qs];W[nj];B[nh];W[ao];B[am];W[ep];B[ss];W[fg];B[hg];W[ke]
;B[jd];W[rh];B[ri];W[si];B[qi];W[pj];B[pl];W[kf];B[kg];W[dk];B[dl];W[fk];B[im];W[hn]
;B[gn];W[en];B[nm];W[mo];B[hp];W[ip];B[mm];W[ca];B[nn];W[aa];B[bc];W[fn];B[kp];W[es]
;B[kh];W[lf];B[rk];W[kb];B[sk]C[ºÚ°ëĿʤ¡£µ«µãĿʱ½ðÂØÓ³²»É÷½«×óÏ°׽ǶàÊý³öһĿ¡£¾Öºó½ðÂØÓ³Ìá³öÖÊÒÉ£¬º«¹úÆåÔºÀíÊ»áÈÏΪÊǺÚÆå×Ô¼ºµÄʧÎ󣬲¢ÇÒµãĿʱδÖÊÒɽá¹û£¬ÈÔÅаװëĿʤ¡£])

[xed_over]

thanks for the game record

I've posted the game record here, though it may generate more questions than it answers.

yeah
because in this record, white fills E1 (at move 280) giving a final score of B+0.5

[willemien]

Pros missing an atari...

I am missing it as well which atari is ment and so? (please give move numbers) or a snapshot of the position

[palapiku]

move 279