Apple on Flash

[kirkmc]

Since there was a discussion about the non-presence of Flash on the iPhone back on GD, I thought it would be interesting to post a link to a text Apple has just published regarding Flash:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

[judicata]

Interesting. Though, FTA: "Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain."

That's chutzpah - if Apple is an open system, I'm the Honinbo. I agree with them that flash is closed, as I'm all about open source (typing this from my laptop, which runs Ubuntu), but what they do goes beyond the closed-source/open-source issue.

[fwiffo]

I'm still on Apple's side on this, so long as they don't send the police to raid my house if I do an early review of one of their products.

[kirkmc]

Interesting. Though, FTA: "Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain."

That's chutzpah - if Apple is an open system, I'm the Honinbo. I agree with them that flash is closed, as I'm all about open source (typing this from my laptop, which runs Ubuntu), but what they do goes beyond the closed-source/open-source issue.

Read the rest: they mean open standards.

[judicata]

Read the rest: they mean open standards.

I didn't choose my terms widely. Their "closed-ness" goes beyond open/closed standards, though. I understand why they won't work with Flash, but their "we're open, you're closed" argument (with some moral and philosophical shades) is just ironic.

[rubin427]

Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. ... HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

I really admire Apple for this kind of thinking, but...

a more modern format, H.264

I really wish they would support the Ogg Theora video codec as well.

[kirkmc]

Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. ... HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

I really admire Apple for this kind of thinking, but...

a more modern format, H.264

I really wish they would support the Ogg Theora video codec as well.

Why do you say that? Safari plays Ogg Theora videos, so it's supported by WebKit.

[rubin427]

Why do you say that? Safari plays Ogg Theora videos, so it's supported by WebKit.

I got my info from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video#Browser_support.

Since you are saying you have first hand experience to the contrary, I'd be inclined to believe you.

[kirkmc]

Why do you say that? Safari plays Ogg Theora videos, so it's supported by WebKit.

I got my info from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video#Browser_support.

Since you are saying you have first hand experience to the contrary, I'd be inclined to believe you.

I Went to Wikipedia, looked at a page about Ogg Theora, and loaded a sample video.

[Solomon]

tl;dr: HTML5 > Flash

[quantumf]

tl;dr: HTML5 > Flash

Preposterous. I assume you mean javascript+html5 > flash, but even so, that is miles from being true. Flash, when you include things like actionscript 3 and flex, is an extremely mature and widely supported development and deployment platform. The notion that all web developers must now abandon all hard earned knowledge and skill in flash and actionscript, for some new upstart, extremely immature, technology, is just so incredibly tiresome, and so frustratingly typical of the computer industry.

None of the the justifications that Jobs gave wash, as far as I'm concerned, especially the one he regarded as the most important (no intermediate platforms). It's just ridiculous to say that flash apps suck on iPhones - they might, but it isn't a given, especially now that Adobe developed the flash->objective C converter.

The only thing I'll accept is that Adobe haven't been all that good at supporting flash on non-windows platforms.

[CarlJung]

I don't really have any strong feelings about flash either way, but since kirkmc posted a pro-apple article I must come up with something to balance it out.

As with the java article, they list a number of technical arguments that really aren't as convincing as they make it sound.

First of all, flash is used for a lot more than video. All this talk about video only focus on one aspect of flash. Misleading.

Battery life: if you play video with a codec that isn't hardware accelerated it drains the battery faster. Well yes, but leave it as a decision for me what to play mkay? But no, Apple has already decided for you that you can't see those videos.

"We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash." I LOL at the notion that an application can bring down the OS. I hope that's not what they mean but if it is, it means they have made some weird design decisions in the OS.

Touch interfaces have no rollover? Oh come on. How hard can it be to have "drag over" map to "rollover". No multitouch? So just have single touch on flash surfaces then. Technically easy to do.

"We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers." How about choice? If flash suddenly were available that won't mean developers have to use it. Lock-in thinking.

It would be technically easy to put flash on Apples mobile products. But they don't want to leave it up to their users how to use their products. They want to give them a unique and uniform user experience, and they actively prevent technology that have other motives (cross platform) such as java and flash.

I'm not an Apple customer. I like to make my own decisions, not blindly accepting the rules set by Steve. I mean, Steve does not want kgs on iphone/ipad (because it requires java). What more evidence of pure evil do you need

[kirkmc]

Actually, it's wms who doesn't want KGS on the iPad, because he wants to keep his protocol closed...

[oren]

Actually, it's wms who doesn't want KGS on the iPad, because he wants to keep his protocol closed...

As opposed to Apple who doesn't want anyone coding in anything but Objective C.

[ChradH]

Actually, it's wms who doesn't want KGS on the iPad, because he wants to keep his protocol closed...

Weak attempt of changing the subject, IMO