Starcraft II

[Solomon]

Also note: Bad idea to tell people you're new. I was getting my ranking (whee, 4 losses, 1 win in the ranking games) and I was feeling chatty, so I told this guy I was new.
So he cannon rushed me. Wow, that pissed me off. I somehow missed the probe as it slipped into my base. I did manage to kill it before it got in range of any of my buildings, by sacrificing half my probes, but I was so flustered I never built any units to stop the probe from getting back in, and ended up letting him continue the rush 5 seconds later.

I'm not sure the best way to prevent a cannon rush, but I guess it's better to learn it sooner than later.

The magic number is 4. That's the number of probes (assuming you don't have Zealots yet) you should put to attack every warping cannon. It's tempting to just take all probes off the mining to deal with it, but your economy can get hurt so badly by doing so that you could very well fend off the cannon rush and still be behind. If you can kill Peppy the probe, then great - but you don't have to kill it asap to deal with a cannon rush, just take out any warping cannons with 4 probes until you get Zealots and you should be good to go.

I've been 6 pooled a couple times. It's not as bad as I had feared, especially when I see it coming with an early probe getting eaten by a queen.

Mmm...there shouldn't be a queen at all if you're getting 6 pooled and you scout it...unless they get the queen first and then build 6 lings off of 6 drones...in which case, it's a very easy 6 pool to deal with .

Also, has anyone noticed, there is no macro/long term game in bronze? Everyone rushes, and if you survive their rush, you can pretty much run unopposed into their base and destroy them. Is it this way in higher levels? Tourney play doesn't look like this.

Anyway, enough, I have to go run errands before I pass out.

At the diamond level it's a mixed bag really. I'd say about 50% of my games are aggressive/rush/cheese games, and 50% macro-oriented games. When I was in gold/platinum during beta, it was probably more like 75% early, 25% macro .

[Suji]

Supply before Rax is total bullshit that is completely catering to noobs. Bunker /reaper rush is a non-factor at high levels, there are very stable ways to deal with them. Cheese has its role in the metagame, this change simply reduces complexity and creativity in the game.

This needed to happen as Reapers can dominate the match if the other races do the wrong build order. Also it slows down terran to the point where protoss is since in PvT protoss people have the number and speed disadvantage.

[Aphelion]

Supply before Rax is total bullshit that is completely catering to noobs. Bunker /reaper rush is a non-factor at high levels, there are very stable ways to deal with them. Cheese has its role in the metagame, this change simply reduces complexity and creativity in the game.

This needed to happen as Reapers can dominate the match if the other races do the wrong build order. Also it slows down terran to the point where protoss is since in PvT protoss people have the number and speed disadvantage.

Thats like saying you will die to a 6 pool if you went no gate nexus first. You should lose if you do the wrong build order. There's no conventional build right now that is autolose against 8 rax reaper. All this change does is to remove strategic options on higher levels of play because new players can't be bothered to polish their decision making and mechanics to fight early pressure.

I also disagree that PvT has an early game problem with early rax. As a Protoss player in both Sc1 and Sc2, I've died to my fair share of early reaper / bunker, fast concussive shell maurauder, and even scv / marine rushes in the original BW. I can categorically say that there was never a case where there was nothing I could have done better to avoid my fate. This patch doesn't impact my race (Protoss) much, but if this is the continued attitude Blizzard is bringing to SC balance in terms of catering to noobs and specifically making core changes because of silver-gold level cheeses (forge time change, zealot build time change), I will eventually have to quit this game.

[Suji]

Supply before Rax is total bullshit that is completely catering to noobs. Bunker /reaper rush is a non-factor at high levels, there are very stable ways to deal with them. Cheese has its role in the metagame, this change simply reduces complexity and creativity in the game.

This needed to happen as Reapers can dominate the match if the other races do the wrong build order. Also it slows down terran to the point where protoss is since in PvT protoss people have the number and speed disadvantage.

Thats like saying you will die to a 6 pool if you went no gate nexus first. You should lose if you do the wrong build order. There's no conventional build right now that is autolose against 8 rax reaper. All this change does is to remove strategic options on higher levels of play because new players can't be bothered to polish their decision making and mechanics to fight early pressure.

I also disagree that PvT has an early game problem with early rax. As a Protoss player in both Sc1 and Sc2, I've died to my fair share of early reaper / bunker, fast concussive shell maurauder, and even scv / marine rushes in the original BW. I can categorically say that there was never a case where there was nothing I could have done better to avoid my fate. This patch doesn't impact my race (Protoss) much, but if this is the continued attitude Blizzard is bringing to SC balance in terms of catering to noobs and specifically making core changes because of silver-gold level cheeses (forge time change, zealot build time change), I will eventually have to quit this game.

I play Protoss as well. Against Terran, I always have the early Marines and Marauders to deal with, and you can't get to either the HT or the Colossi fast enough when the Terran player Reaper harasses you and comes in with Marines and Marauders. That's the problem with PvT. Though, it will be interesting to see how the depot before the barracks actually changes the gameplay. Terran is so powerful in the early game, and there's nothing Protoss or Zerg can do about it. Late game Protoss catches up, but having a disadvantage going into the endgame is so very hard to overcome.

[Aphelion]

If the Terran goes rax first reaper and you defended it properly, Terran should not be able to have enough marine maurauder early enough to pressure you. The fact that you have problems with it suggests that your early game build execution or micro isn't sound.

This change does precious little to help PvT against marine maurauder anyways, as the overwhelming amount of builds go supply first. Its just another example of the removal of options and creativity for the sake of lower level play that I despise.

[Solomon]

So lately I've been playing games and getting used to 8 finger play as my finger's patching up. I think it's been helping with my mouse usage as I'm more restricted to using hotkeys (esp. 5 - 0, the prime keys for the index finger), so I guess there is a bright side to the situation.

Anyways, I just played a pretty hilarious/epic 1v1 so I thought I'd share, it was against a 1277d, PvP on LT: http://replayfu.com/r/5HQPkm
Thoughts/tips/criticism more than welcome although you can't be too harsh given my situation .

[fwiffo]

OK, that was pretty epic. That's pretty much the only comment I have.

[Tooveli]

Pretty cool. I watched the whole replay from your perspective which made it all the more amusing.

You asked for comments so I'll give some but you're free to respond to every single one of them by repeating that you're pretty much missing a finger.

Tips/Criticisms:
1) Why is your pylon so far forward in your cannon setup? I would have thought it made more sense to have the pylon sitting back out of range.
2) Why don't you scout with your probe that's at the pylon. He knows you fast expanded so he's either going to rush early or (more likely) expand himself (we can discount silly things like him sitting on one base and going for a mothership because that will give you time to use the FE and get a big lead). You just need to walk your probe up to his ramp and back away again and you get so much information.
3) Why proxy the stargates like that? I was so nervous that your opponent would just come over and snipe the pylon. It's so close to his base, he could easily scout it without even trying to and it's completely undefended. You've got cannons at the front of your base so it's unlikely he's got an observer in. I think you could just build them at home. I know carriers are slow, if I really wanted to proxy them I think it's probably safer up at the 12'o'clock main.

Thoughts:
1) Getting your first attacking unit out at 7:30 isn't a conventional tactic.
2) However, going for carriers and then winning by losing your whole frickin base comes highly recommended.

[Solomon]

Tips/Criticisms:
1) Why is your pylon so far forward in your cannon setup? I would have thought it made more sense to have the pylon sitting back out of range.
2) Why don't you scout with your probe that's at the pylon. He knows you fast expanded so he's either going to rush early or (more likely) expand himself (we can discount silly things like him sitting on one base and going for a mothership because that will give you time to use the FE and get a big lead). You just need to walk your probe up to his ramp and back away again and you get so much information.
3) Why proxy the stargates like that? I was so nervous that your opponent would just come over and snipe the pylon. It's so close to his base, he could easily scout it without even trying to and it's completely undefended. You've got cannons at the front of your base so it's unlikely he's got an observer in. I think you could just build them at home. I know carriers are slow, if I really wanted to proxy them I think it's probably safer up at the 12'o'clock main.

Thoughts:
1) Getting your first attacking unit out at 7:30 isn't a conventional tactic.
2) However, going for carriers and then winning by losing your whole frickin base comes highly recommended.

1) Yeah it was a mistake, simply put. The cannon should be in the rear (with the gear) of the cannons.
2) Iirc, I did try sending a probe up his ramp to see what was up (the one that was near the watchtower). But I do agree that sending the probe that built the proxy to the far left watchtower wasn't the best plan.
3) Cause blimps are sooooooo slow . It was too risky where I placed them though; it would have made a world of difference if they were to the left of the grass that was a little bit to the left of the buildings. Putting them at the 12'o'clock main on the edge somewhere would have been better as well.

1) Indeed indeed; I relied too much on 2 cannons to do my dirty work; had he done a standard/boring 4-gate push, I think I would have been in trouble.

[CSamurai]

Well, I.. really suck.

I've played around 35 games now, and I'm weak against Protoss (I play Protoss)

I'm strong against zerg, and OK against terran. And the problem is, about 2/3 of bronze seems to be playing protoss. If it's not a cannon rush (or a proxy 2 gate /inside/ my base!) it's void rays. I have been working on just doing a 4 gate, but this doesn't work real well for me against protoss.

I need to remember, Stalkers and Immortals, with a zealot to stop the cannon rush.

6 pool where someone knows what they're doing is.. really nasty. I got 6 pooled by a guy who just kept pumping out zerglings. I beat back the first few, but I lost so many probes that I wasn't able to build more than a couple zealots, and he managed to defeat me.

Mainly I'm getting frustrated at the number of protoss just building cheese. I don't mind losing to a squad of void rays. I mean, it hurts my feelings, but at least it's honest. But losing to a pair of gates warping in in my base.. I need to watch the replay, I suspect he arrived before I even had a pylon.

I'm really getting tired of the league ranking system though.

I gain about 8-10 points for a win. Less if I were out of my bonus pool
I lose 16-20 points for a loss. WHAT THE HELL?
I have to maintain a 2/3 win rate to /maintain/ my rank? What the hell is that?
Can anyone explain this crap to me?

[schilds]

You'll gain/lose about 12 points for winning/losing even matches, so if you're only gaining 8-10 points for a win and losing 16-20 for a loss, that suggests you are playing people lower ranked than you against whom you should be able to maintain a higher win rate. If you're not maintaining a higher win rate, then that suggests you were overranked coming out of your placement matches (which would not be unusual, as 5 matches would only produce a rough estimate of your strength).

[MountainGo]

Is anyone on the NA servers looking for a practice partner? I just lost to a 6pool (even though I scouted it early, argh!), and I got some ideas for what I could have done differently, but now I can't really practice them. So I was thinking it would be nice to have someone to do specific strategies against me so I could practice countering them, and I would do the same for that person. Anyone interested? I'm 1200 Diamond, but you don't necessarily have to be similar in skill as long as you can do any individual strats well (e.g. 6pool, not exactly too demanding).

[Tooveli]

I'd be up for it if I lived in the US. I've annoyingly got lots of work to do at the moment but still have 6 hours of US guest pass left. I'll be up for playing some after thursday. I really hope Day9 does another multiplayer funday monday.

[CSamurai]

You'll gain/lose about 12 points for winning/losing even matches, so if you're only gaining 8-10 points for a win and losing 16-20 for a loss, that suggests you are playing people lower ranked than you against whom you should be able to maintain a higher win rate. If you're not maintaining a higher win rate, then that suggests you were overranked coming out of your placement matches (which would not be unusual, as 5 matches would only produce a rough estimate of your strength).

On my first day after placement, I lost a LOT. I mean, most of my losses come from the first day. I went on a 4 game winning streak, then lost, then had a 3 game winning streak, and I've been getting 50/50 ever since, and my ranking keeps falling. Whee. I'd like to play even games, I really would, as I figure I have about a 50% chance of beating most people who aren't cheesing. Cheese drags my percentage down quite a bit, actually. I really need to learn to counter that crap.

I beat a poorly run 6 pool by zealoting up with a 2gate early army build. I am trying out a couple 2 gate Stargate builds, trying to see about void rushes, but it seems kinda.. slow. Still, if I can get an early expansion, for the gas, I have little trouble with it.

I just still don't know what to do vs protoss, but I guess mass stalkers and some phoenixes is a start if I suspect voids.

Things I have learned:
You can chrono boost your warp gates to make it possible to really throw out units.
You can block off small ramps with 2 zealots, a gateway, and a pylon.
You can block off large ramps with a cyber core, a gateway, a pylon, and 2 zs.
I need to learn to pay more attention to my sentries.
Blocking half the massive zergling rush the aborted 6pooler throws out is awesome.
You can gateway at 10, but it hurts your econ.
You can never have enough stalkers.
Except when they've got banshees.
If you're playing a protoss, build several observers to watch for DTs.
I have to pay attention to supply. Protoss eat supply like it's candy. 6 for a Colossus? 4 for an Immortal? 3 for a Phoenix? No wonder I'm always supply blocking myself in the midgame.
I need to make early pushes earlier. I am way way too cautious about building up before attacking. If I attacked a little earlier, I could do serious damage in many of my games.
My APM sucks.
That doesn't matter in Bronze.
I'll never be Pro or 1337.
To report someone for harassment, you need to click on their profile icon, and go to More. (Don't ask why I found this out)
Don't tell people that you're new, or frustrated, or otherwise playing poorly. They'll take advantage with cheese.
I really. Really. REALLY suck at this game.

[MountainGo]

I really. Really. REALLY suck at this game.

Speaking as a Diamond player, I can reassure you that that feeling will not go away .

Here's my advice to you for now. Keep it simple. All you need to be able to do to get to Platinum is this:

1. Always be making something out of all your production buildings (including Probes from your Nexus).
2. Do not let your total minerals + gas get above, say, 600.
3. Do not get supply blocked for more than a couple seconds at a time here or there. Hitting max supply forces you to waste money on stuff you don't need because you're unable to spend it on units.
4. At around 10-13 minutes into the game, ATTACK!