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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: October 9 endgame problem
Post #1 Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:55 pm 
Honinbo

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What is best play for both sides?

How much does gote or reverse sente gain?

Enjoy! :)

----

Edit: For those who prefer diagrams:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O X O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
This post by Bill Spight was liked by: illluck
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: October 9 endgame problem
Post #2 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:31 am 
Gosei
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I don't know anything about endgame. I drew this. Is it the answer ?

Attachment:
tree.jpg
tree.jpg [ 25.82 KiB | Viewed 5971 times ]


Oh, I get it. I have described the question, not the answer.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: October 9 endgame problem
Post #3 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:43 am 
Lives in sente

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D19 best for black, E19 best for white I think. 14 points double-gote?

Edit: Ah, black will let white capture the three stones and take corner (but E19 still a bit better than just capturing corner), so 11.5 double-gote?

Edit 2: Ok, now I'm just confused XD Edit 1 is wrong, because black will first capture the two white stones before giving up the three stones (wE19 bD19 wF19 bE18 wF19 bB19 wJ19), and at the end K19 is white's sente. So it seems like that sequence is 11 points double-gote?


Last edited by illluck on Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: October 9 endgame problem
Post #4 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:59 am 
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D19 for Black

E19 for white... Best to take the corner

I originally said A19 or B19 for white but found that was small once I played it out....

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Offline emeraldemon
 Post subject: Re: October 9 endgame problem
Post #5 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:49 pm 
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I agree with illuck's analysis, I think it's 11 pts gote (i.e. 5.5 points miai count). Here's the sequence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O 2 1 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O X 4 X O X O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 6 O X . 5 X X 7 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O X X X O X O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X . X X X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


After this, black has 3 points territory and 4 captures = 7
white has 2 points territory and 3 captures = 5, net B+2.

compare with:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O 1 . . X X s s . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O X O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Now black has 3 captures and 10 points (incl. marked) for B+13. Difference is 11. Of course, that whole exchange may not be sente, but where would white tennuki?
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Offline Darrell
 Post subject: Re: October 9 endgame problem
Post #6 Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:51 pm 
Dies in gote
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I also agreed with illuck's sequence, but as illuck points out, white has a 1-point sente move to make at the end, so I think it is 12 points gote.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: October 9 endgame problem
Post #7 Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Good going, guys! :)



This is gote.

In the marked regions, the original position is worth 14 points for Black. Each gote gains 6 points.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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