Re-entry into the igo world

hirohiigo · Post by **hirohiigo** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:57 am

It's been over 6 months since I last played a game of igo, which is far too long. So I just hopped into KGS and decided to play a random game:

This is how it went. I'm black. Last I checked I was only about 20k, maybe I'm a bit weaker after such a long absence. Critique would be very welcome.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:13 pm

First, welcome back! Okay, I'm going to just point out a few recurring issues. Work on these, play a few more games, then we can look for other things to work on.

1) Don't attach to weak/lone stones unless you have a good plan.

Often this results in your opponent stopping to strengthen their stone, and then your attachment stone is outnumbered. You do this at moves 7 and 9, for example.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Unhelpful attachment $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . W B . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If your opponent responds locally, we're left wondering who's attacking who. If you want to pressure that stone or contest its purpose, try to throttle back a bit. Instead of getting up in his face, play some loose fences around him.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Approaching from further away $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 1 . . C . . 2 . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this picture, we get a clear idea where black will be getting points. With these moves, black takes control to get what he wants. While white's group may look like it also gets points, it is still not settled. It has weak spots like the one at 'a', and could still be a liability to white in the future. Even if that group settles and stabilizes, it seems a bit slow and small compared to what black has just gotten. However, in addition to pressuring white's lone stone, we have another option: shrug and play somewhere else.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Go elsewhere $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Even if we ignore it entirely, it's hard to say that white's stone is any more effective than black's framework-building on the bottom side. It just makes for a different kind of game.
Just for one final look at the original diagram, consider this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Unhelpful attachment $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . O W . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If we look at something like this, who has more liberties? Black's stone has 3, and white's stones have 5. Looking at it this way, it's easy to see that white has more leeway and is likely to come out ahead in the fight. It's far from a perfect rule, but it does follow that if you're low on liberties, you can't afford to be as aggressive as you might want to be.

2) Kermit says: Don't walk when you can jump

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Can we play faster? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X C X . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . O O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The removed move makes the dreaded 'empty triangle'. This triangle is dreaded because it covers ground slowly and has few liberties. When possible, you're better off jumping further, to cover ground faster. Of course, sometimes the empty triangle shape is the only way to keep yourself safe. However, if you can afford to play a more effecient/less dense shape, it's usually worth it.
The question comes, then: Can you afford to play faster, as shown above? I know your reading is good for your level, because you knew for example to defend at move 47. If you didn't defend at move 47, your opponent could have played there to capture your stones. At your level, I fell for that sort of trick all the time, because my reading was terrible. Back to the problem above: can white punish you if you try to play faster? Read it out for yourself, then look here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Safe, and ahead $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . O X 2 a 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O X X 1 X . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . O O 3 . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Did you get it right? White can't do anything to harm you if you jump, so you should do so. Make sure you read before you jump, however, lest you be surprised, cut off, and killed. (Note that we played 4 low to avoid the cut at 'a') Basically, the point is this: both players play the same amount of moves, so the winner is the person whose moves do more. If all of your stones are in a dense little clump, your opponent is covering ground faster and most likely is surrounding more territory. To have another look at covering ground efficiently, look at the moves between turn 48 and turn 61 or so. Your opponent played inefficiently, dumping stones into the northwest. Every chance you could, instead of replying, you jumped further in the bottom left, to make a bigger and bigger framework. While your opponent DID get a wall from this, each move covered less ground and was worth less points than yours. By move 61, you're covering ground on a massive scale, while your opponent has three walls surrounding an easily-reduced framework, with little solid territory. Long story short, you won this game because you covered ground faster and played more efficiently. When you can safely afford to play faster and jump farther, it's an option worth considering.

You won this game well. If you have any questions about what I've said, let me know. Otherwise, good luck with your games!

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:45 pm

Your number one problem was that you spent only five seconds per move. I'm not against blitz if that is how you prefer to play, but I do think that you would benefit more (and the reviewer would feel like their time is worth more) if you spend longer on your games that you want reviewed in the future. Nevertheless, here's a few comments on your biggest mistakes, and where you could have played instead.

P.S Welcome back!

judicata · Post by **judicata** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:03 pm

Hi there, and welcome!

I echo 100% of Chew's comments; how can I not? His comments helped me go from DDK to SDK

. I'll try to organize my comments around principles. Note that there are always exceptions to principles. A good way to apply them is probably think "Okay, this move is against a principle, so do I have a clear plan for playing here?" If not, then you probably shouldn't play it.

1-5 All good moves, couldn't have played them better myself. Sticking with the 4-4 or 3-4 around your level is probably a good idea, but not that big a deal.

7 - As Chew said, generally you shouldn't touch a weak stone (often, the diagonal is considered "touching" for these purposes). There are definitely exceptions to this, but if a stone is weak (especially a lone stone) think before you attach/touch. Strangely, attacking moves are usually not attachments, but one or more spaces away from the stone being attacked. In large part, this is because attaching to a lone stone will usually just force the stone to become stronger.

Note that 6 and 8 are bad moves for White. Generally, when you play in the middle of two of your opponents corners (like white did here) usually play on the third line so the stones can make a base. When there are additional stones in the area, you have to adjust. You responses to 6 and 8 should be almost anything else other than an attachment. Enclose a corner, for example. Or play a few spaces away on the third line.

21 - Usually, don't play elsewhere ("tenuki") when your stones are vulnerable. The shape of the L17 stones is really bad, which I'm sure you realized when white played L16. Also, your K5 stones is in the wrong place--it would be better to play at K4 or approach at O3, for example. Or you can even do F3. Again, make sure your stones can make a base and they aren't left "floating."

35 - Good idea with this move - don't get closed in.

39 and 41. Early in the game, think for a minute before playing moves on the first or second lines. If you're going to keep going in this corner, you should continue on the third line with 39 (and not go down to the first line with 41). Why? Think about it: white can't really invade underneath your 3rd line stone, and you're obviously making MUCH more territory if you're pushing along the third (or, better, fourth) line. There is a proverb that says the third line is the line of territory, and the second line is the line of defeat (or something like that). Don't take it too seriously, but think before willingly playing along the second line (unless you have to for life).

43 - Nice idea. This Neutralizes white's strength a bit, while not getting too close (or too far from your corner stone).

90ish - You were able to use the stones around K5 kind of, though you were lucky white didnt handle the situation correctly. You should still get the idea that stones that high don't have a base, and can become in danger very quickly.

153 - Just because you CAN atari and capture, doesn't mean that you should. Here, there is no reason to play to capture the white stones after you've already sealed them off. But if you can't read it out, and you think you're in danger it is okay at your level to play it safe and capture.

hirohiigo · Post by **hirohiigo** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:28 pm

Thanks for all the comments.

I agree that I played a bit quickly. In general I'm a pretty instinctual player so I try not to over think things, but if I took the time to read through some of those situations I probably would have gotten out of a lot of trouble. I saw a lot more opportunities when reviewing the game afterward than I did while playing.

I didn't realize hitting his stone at the top was so bad. I was worried about losing the top, but didn't think about how he could take advantage of it. Whoops. I'll keep that in mind from now on.

I'll have to practice a bit more on jumping stones more effectively. Sometimes I feel weak if I don't have a solid connection when I'm being attacked; but I guess every new player goes through that.

I'm not against blitz if that is how you prefer to play, but I do think that you would benefit more (and the reviewer would feel like their time is worth more) if you spend longer on your games that you want reviewed in the future.

Well I wasn't intending to post it here at first.

I was just playing because I haven't played in forever, and while reviewing it I decided to ask what all you smart people thought of my play so I knew where to focus on from now on.

Life In 19x19

Re-entry into the igo world

Re-entry into the igo world

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Re: Re-entry into the igo world

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Re: Re-entry into the igo world