Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:17 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here is a challenge White can pose Black, which seems appropriate for a 3 stone game.

Edit: Unhidden.

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:01 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . c . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . 5 . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

35 is just too predictable and the subsequent moves way too simple. Once Black gets out I could jump out at A or cover at B. Black is never really in trouble because if he ever feels the top right group is weak he plays C and makes a strong shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . a . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the way I'm thinking it'll go but who knows. Black could respond with A instead of 36 but that's if he really feels his group is in danger. After the exchange of 35 for 36 I might play at B but I have to wait for Kirby's response. If the game thus far is tells me anything, he'll find a good response.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:47 am

Jedo wrote:
What do you guys think about black instead playing the attachment at O16 in an attempt to make white over-concentrated? Or does it still give white too much? As for know, how about coming out and splitting at 015?

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:33 am

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:41 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I really don't know if this move is correct, but I am having a hard time thinking of a good alternative. I considered these moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . e . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . b . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . f c . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . d g X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O a . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like "a" because of this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . x . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . x x . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 7 O 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 2 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

in the diagram above, white can have forcing moves along the spaces that are marked with "x". This allows white to develop on the top easily. I don't like it that much, since white can also build a postion on the right with no problems. He'll also get sente. It's not that great, I think.

A move like "e" has not much meaning, for the same reason that I mentioned in an earlier post. It tries to take territory, but doesn't even do that well.

The move at "b" really feels like aji keshi. I've been burned by aji keshi in the past.

I almost played "c". It gets my group out. The reason I didn't was because it doesn't really feel right. It doesn't put much pressure on white on either side. It just has a single purpose: running out. White can then chase me later in the game, maybe. It just doesn't feel right, exactly.

For the same reason, "f" might stretch a little further, but it still doesn't feel right. It's also a little thin, allowing for black to potentially peep and split me in the future.

The move at "g" pushes from behind, letting white to build up a wall.

So I decided to jump out one further than "g" and play at "d". The reason is because white cannot cut me immediately, because he hurts his stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 marked stone is damaged! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . 4 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . 5 3 2 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I think this is the best way to go for now... I've thought about this, so hopefully there's nothing I've missed...

But let's see how yithril responds...

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:08 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . 7 . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . 0 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . 9 8 . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It almost goes without saying that directly pushing and cutting is terrible for White, I destroy my own stone at the top for no reason and Black gets to push out into my area of influence. I also decided against directly playing A because I don't want my top area to get damaged too much before I start some chaos on the right. No thick positions = no attacking later.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:20 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 8 X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:44 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:56 am

I'm not ready to make a move, yet, but I'll share what I'm thinking right now.

Earlier, I rejected this sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 7 O 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 2 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

primarily because white gets a position on *both* sides, and black is still left without much in the corner.

I played the move I did to avoid this, but now again, I'm faced with the possibility of white getting a position on both sides. The marked stones seem strong:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . W . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

so it is hard to deny white much of a position on the top. I would like to avoid allowing for him to be too comfortable on the right side, too. In other words, I want to find a way to pressure these stones effectively:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Pressure these stones! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I am currently trying to think of a method to do this.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:15 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, if I'm going to put up a fight, I should pressure him, right? I think that the move I am playing here is putting pressure on the white stones, while at the same time building potential with my bottom right star point.

Again, since two points are open at "a" and "b", I can't hope to make much territory in the top right at the moment:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm31 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . b . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . a . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Therefore, I can put these stones to use by pressuring white, and getting points in another area of the board.

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:13 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:44 pm

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:39 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My first instinct is to try to seal white into the corner. As such, I want to play on the outside. However, this sequence might arise from that way of playing:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Diagram A $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Which is basically the same as if white invaded at the 3-3, and I played this way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, if white played at the 3-3, I have two ways to block, "a" and "b":

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Because of the marked black stones in the diagram above, I would not block at "a" - I would be too over-concentrated. I would want to block at "b". Therefore, the following position is probably bad for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm41 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I cannot play this way. Let's consider if I played a different way in Diagram A. I can think of playing at "c" and "d" in the following diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . c X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both allow white to move in with a move like "e", for example. However, maybe "d" is not so bad, because the side isn't really territory for me anyway.

That is, maybe something like this is OK for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However...

White might not play as :w2:

in the above diagram. White may play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have to worry about a move by white like "e", which will threaten to split apart the marked black stones in the above diagram.

So I could play this way:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 5 X 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And I like this a lot. But white might still try some funny business:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 7 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 5 X 2 9 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think there is too much risk to split apart the marked black stones if I play this way. So I will be gentle with white. I will not resist. I will let him take the outside. I expect something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . 4 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . 2 O 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm OK with this type of a result. I have to give white something... I just have to have more.

yithril · Post by **yithril** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:23 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:30 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm41 Has Captured: B - 4, W - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | X X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O . O X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . X O O X O . O . , . . O . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game

Re: Yithril (4d) vs. Kirby 3 stone game