77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

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Laman
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by Laman »

i think white played a good move, but i don't agree with his expectatations about b F5 w cut F4. i see at least two variations better for black than the one white showed:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W O 3 2 4 O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . a . 7 6 X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 9 8 0 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
not sure who captures first after b a, but it makes more sense than 9 at 10

easier and still not bad i believe:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W O 4 2 3 O a , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 6 7 . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
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robinz
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by robinz »

Actually, I realised last night that, if black does play the one-point jump, I can't cut it when black chooses the following variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc robinz vs DIV - Move 42; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 4 2 3 O 9 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 6 7 . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- the ladder works for black. (EDIT: actually, the original F3 stone is lost, so I guess it does technically cut the jump after all. But the position has its attractions for black.)

I'm now not sure what to do if black does play the jump. I could just play out the variation given above, giving up the H4 stone - then I at least get a pretty large corner. But black's group is now out into the centre and looking reasonably strong, and my two groups in the lower-right are not going to feel too happy. Alternatively I could respond with a ladder-breaker, of which both H6 and P9 look faintly useful. All in all, no shortage of options, so I'm not desparately worried - but it's worth pointing out an error in my previous analysis (I wonder if this is what Laman's post was about - I guess I won't know until the end of the game :))
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DIV
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by DIV »

Ah, I hate this netbook, I posted a response two days ago, but it didn't take I guess...haha. anyway.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 robinz vs DIV - Move 43; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



So, I had explained that I think I've seen moves kind of like this. Potential for moving under his stones on the right and into the corner, also toward center and left side. I guess we'll see.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 robinz vs DIV - Move 44; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 . . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger for DIV (no obligation to accept, but just to speed things up if you do):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm44 robinz vs DIV - Move 44; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 2 . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The knight's move here looks like an attempt to connect his two approach stones (surely either of the one-point jumps was better if he just wanted to run out with one while sacrificing the other) - but this cut seems to work (in the standard situation where this position might arise, white doesn't have either of the stones on C4 or H4, which makes black enormously stronger in the local area, but not here); black has no easy way to capture the cutting stone, and his own stones are in some danger. My 3 stones in the corner do get cut off, but they will still have 6 liberties even after black's block, so I don't think they're in danger (actually they can surely even make eyes if they're forced to).

I think DIV will accept the trigger, as anything else seems inconsistent (and also lets me get the nice fourth line wall that I've been after - this time probably even with my corner territory behind it rather than his :D But it's possible that he will change his mind and try to do something with the C6/E5 group. Whatever he does, I don't think black is going to find it easy fighting in this area of the board.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by DIV »

I'll move soon I promise, robinz.


His defensive play has me in a troublesome spot. Everything I'm playing is overplay, haha. I don't really know what to do here...I need to take some real time and figure out what I need to do here.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by robinz »

No worries - glad to see you're still with us :)
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by DIV »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 robinz vs DIV - Move 45; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by topazg »

This is one of those fundamental principle thingies for me, that Kage has drilled in again and again. There is no choice here but to cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 robinz vs DIV - Move 45; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O 2 3 O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 4 6 . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As anything like this is just fabulous for White, guaranteeing him a huge territory, Black must block:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm45 robinz vs DIV - Move 45; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O 1 5 O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like this perhaps, in the hope that compensation at the bottom can be looked for to make up for the difficulties Black will face on the left?

Where did it go wrong? Move 43 had to be a jump out:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 robinz vs DIV - Move 43; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now Black has good chances of harrassing White's corner, and White cannot take the bottom edge as a large territory. Preventing F3 from being cut off is enormous. C6 is still going to come under a lot of pressure, but at least Black has a good fight going, and the ability to neutralise any White potential at the bottom.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm46 robinz vs DIV - Move 46; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O 1 . O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, back to this game after a bit of a break, so I'm glad he hasn't given me much to think about - cutting is the name of the game here, with building a wall a nice bonus. There's no way he can connect his stones - if he does play G4, then I even have a pleasant choice of which cut/atari to play :) My guess is that he'll abandon F3 to its fate (it still has a fair amount of aji that I may need to worry about later) and try to make life on the outside - but he won't find it easy, and I should at least make some territory while attacking it.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by DIV »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm47 robinz vs DIV - Move 47; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O 1 O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 robinz vs DIV - Move 48; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

name of the game here is gains. there are potential cuts, there are potential move for me toward side and center either way, I am confident that I can play against him to get life for this group and maybe drag it across the center. hopefully though I can take some territory in the low. we'll see.
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Laman
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by Laman »

DIV: trigger?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 robinz vs DIV - Move 48; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
not for the players:
otherwise, for last moves, w C4 was surely good and black would do better by answering with a jump F5 as topazg said. now the local situation is quite troublesome for black
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by robinz »

DIV - have you missed a move on your trigger? Your 48 is indeed the move I'm going to make, but you need to tell me how you plan to respond to it, so I can think about my next move :) (I guess this is Laman's point too - and good to see some more dan players are interested in this game :D )

For what it's worth, here's a trigger of my own:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 robinz vs DIV - Move 48; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And some brief thoughts, not for my opponent:
Well, I think I have to atari on this side - playing G5 instead would let him separate my two groups on the bottom from each other, and give him plenty of ways to try to make life either on the bottom or above - in either case making my C4 group look heavy and vulnerable. This way, while I end in gote, I definitively take care of the lower side, and his upper group is still floating. Depending on his move, I can choose between attacking it or returning to the right-hand side to try to strengthen my R7 group at the expense of his lower-right group, which could be very important as black can easily run towards this area.

Note that I can't play move 50 at F2, which was my original intention - black then plays H3, and after I capture he can take my H4 stone in a ladder, when my groups get split and his quite strong. But the move I chose still ensures the capture of the F3 stone while defending against this threat.

It's funny, in a way, that the main point of my early play in this fight was to try to get influence towards the centre, possibly at the expense of corner territory, while it's turned out that I get quite a large chunk of territory and black gets an outside group :lol: But it seems a decent exchange for me - I now really have a lot of territory on that lower side, while black's outside group is by no means strong. I'm sure I can't kill it outright, but it's going to be running for some time to come, and I may be able to make some more territory while he does so. (Note that if he runs far to the north, I may have to worry slightly about the safety of the group containing my wall there - but for the moment it's fine; the space around B12 should be good for at least one eye, and if I have to I can always play at E17 to guarantee another one.

Finally, my opponent won't necessarily take the trigger - he can try to cause problems by playing something like G2 or H3 next instead. But it doesn't look like these will cause me any real headaches. Perhaps he'll start to do something with the E5 group already. To be honest, I don't really understand his last couple of moves, so it's hard for me to predict...
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DIV
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by DIV »

haha, sorry for the botched trigger. I will accept your trigger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 robinz vs DIV - Move 51; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Building some influence outward here, but no go on the bottom. I will try to contain his potential territory on the bottom and push out toward the stone at c10. Like I said his play style (and i assume I am actually doing this anyway) makes everything seem like overplay to me. But I am enjoying this game.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by robinz »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 robinz vs DIV - Move 52; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, that's a slightly surprising move from my point of view. It just makes black's group heavier, without yet giving it any eyeshape. And, while I had to do a bit of reading to be sure of this, it's not even sente - if black cuts at H3 I can pull out the H4 stone and still win any capturing race that he sets up against the G2/3 stones.

So, I think I can play essentially wherever I want. But this is where I often mess up, as there's such a wide choice. I'm not going to say a lot about this move, therefore, but it feels that, while it may well not be the very best move on the board, it can't be too bad. (After all, what does the proverb say about the one-point jump? ;-)) It seems to simultaneously expand by bottom territory and limit the running room of black's groups on both the left and right. I just like the look of it. It does allow black some tactical options involving the peep at K4, but I don't see anything to fear there, given my stable stones in close proximity.

I've no idea what Black will do now. Other than trying some funny business involving ataris and peeps in the region I just played in (none of which, as I said, seems to work too well for black), the most likely option I think is that he'll make some kind of extension northwards from the weak group on the left. I'm not then sure of what the best way to play will be, but I have stones all around, many of them strong(ish), and I'm not seeing any eyes for him yet.
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Re: 77: robinz[12k] v. DIV[12k]

Post by DIV »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 robinz vs DIV - Move 53; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X X . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I have been slacking on my commentary and thoughts lately. So I figure I'll do some real comments now.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 robinz vs DIV - Move 52; prisoners: Black 0 White 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . |
$$ | . g . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . h . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . e . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . f . . X X X X . . O . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X O b , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now I'm not really sure what to go with or if these are even the biggest or most urgent points, I kinda like the look of h, but I'd like it even more with a in place, I think that I'll go h just to pressure him toward the center and then it's kind of a miai thing for edge or movement into the center. Hopefully I am not playing another overplay.
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