Starcraft II

[Tooveli]

Blizzard really wants me to buy a US account.

You'll be telling me that there is going to be a L19 starcraft tournament on the US server next.

[yoyoma]

Decided to give DTs a whirl in a PvT...when I say I barely won it, I really mean "barely" : http://i.imgur.com/7DUDR.jpg

Oh it took forever for me to realize why it was so close. For the longest time I just saw DTs=gg. To preserve the exasperation for others, don't click the spoiler if you're still confused like me.

The DTs are 99% done warping in, but the pylon is 99% done dying. If the pylon died the DT warp would get cancelled.

Tooveli: The US server is the funnest playground on Earth, filled with rainbows, unicorns, and double robobays all the way. Join us for the low low price of 60 dollars (US of course) in the L19 tourny this Saturday.

[Numsgil]

I'm pretty sure I saw someone quickly split an army into its two components (eg. have only zerglings selected from a control group of zerglings and banelings) without double clicking the units on the map. Is this possible?

Ctrl + click on the wireframe

If the group with all types is currently selected, you can also just use the TAB key.

[Numsgil]

I don't understand how to inject larvae using the minimap. How do you know that it's time to inject? When I have my queens all on one hotkey and my hatcheries all on another then how can I tell that my larvae have just popped (or when I'm being ridiculously gosu that my queens have just got back to 25 energy)?

I think you'll get a "bizzaaaap" noise or a warning message or something if it's not time yet. If you're waiting too long, there isn't really any indication. But you could put a hatch on 0 that you use just to check timings since you can see the gray bar for larva spew (keep in mind you can assign a hatch to more than one hotkey, so you can still group all your hatches in one hotkey).

[CSamurai]

I'm apparently having fun playing an OP race and being a Hacker today.

[topazg]

On the offchance I was to buy this a) how likely is a European like me able to get to match up with those from the US (either random ladder or actually seeking you guys out), and b) how steep is the learning curve for an ex-Starcraft I enthusiast?

[CSamurai]

SC2 has different build timings and unit balances than Sc1. But, the general skills will transfer pretty well, just ask Jinro.

The biggest strangeness is that the quick keys are different from what I remember, but I didn't play a lot of sc1 Multiplayer, just the single player.

I think that Europe and NA are seperate zones, but I think you can buy a NA copy of the game, if you want to play on the NA server.

There's something about that earlier in the thread...

[topazg]

SC2 has different build timings and unit balances than Sc1. But, the general skills will transfer pretty well, just ask Jinro.

The biggest strangeness is that the quick keys are different from what I remember, but I didn't play a lot of sc1 Multiplayer, just the single player.

I think that Europe and NA are seperate zones, but I think you can buy a NA copy of the game, if you want to play on the NA server.

There's something about that earlier in the thread...

Many thanks - presumably I can't watch sc2replay files without the game installed? (a brief search around seemed to suggest that this was the case, but it was a big vague).

[MountainGo]

Many thanks - presumably I can't watch sc2replay files without the game installed? (a brief search around seemed to suggest that this was the case, but it was a big vague).

Right. A replay file is just a list of the inputs from each player, so you need the game to be able to compute what the results of those inputs are. That's why sc2gears, for example, can't tell when something is destroyed or when a unit couldn't be made for lack of resources.

If I were you I would try to find out what the lag would be like playing on the NA servers from the UK. If it's not too bad, you're probably better off getting a NA copy of the game (or, obviously, both, if you have that kind of money to throw around).

[Solomon]

b) how steep is the learning curve for an ex-Starcraft I enthusiast?

If you've already played SC1, the learning curve is almost nil. I came from a WC3 background where I played actively over 5 years ago (before I played Go), and even that was enough for me to get the ball rolling in a matter of minutes and dive straight into SC2 multiplayer.

[Tooveli]

When I played on Araban's guest account on the US server I had 90% of the time with no noticeable lag and then occasionally (as MountainGo can confirm) it would be unplayable for a bit. The sample size isn't so big though, I may have just got unlucky (or lucky). My internet connection isn't anything special but I've never had a problem on the EU server.

[MountainGo]

With so much long-established wisdom enshrined in stacks of literature on Go, it can be frustrating not to have the same sort of resources for Starcraft. I stumbled on an interesting thread on Team Liquid about that topic, in which someone linked to a real gem (pdf) for anyone looking for guidance. Incidentally, it was nice to see therein validation of my advice to everyone but the top 10% or so of the ladder:

Having good mechanical macro is both by far the most important and the simplest mechanic by far, and once you get to the top there is little to distinguish one player from another in terms of macro. At the lowest level, you can go astonishingly far just by doing a good build order and having solid macro. Along the same line, no matter what other skills you may have, you will never get anywhere if you can't macro.

Many posters come into the strategy forum and say straight up "I know I macroed bad but what else is the problem?" Well that right there is their ONLY problem: that they are concentrating on other factors besides their bad macro.

[...]

Just practice macro over and over. If your macro is not close to perfect, why should you possibly care about anything else?

[Numsgil]

I'm liking that PDF you linked I've always been a sucker for "theory" books I guess, whether on go or whatever game I'm playing/studying.

[CSamurai]

I question this, not because it's bad advice, Macro wins me a lot of games, but because, well, my micro sucks.

I generally try to compensate by refining my build order/macro as much as possible. I still screw up, especially when excited or surprised, but I have a better macro than most of bronze, and that has led me to having a fairly positive win percentage.

On the other hand, Abydos not only beat me on macro, he out microed me as well, forcefielding me into my own base, blocking my counter attacks, generally making my life very difficult because I forgot that walling up against protoss is a bad plan. Granted, he out macroed me as well, outbuilding and out producing me at every turn, but he didn't need half his forces to make my life hurt.

The statement that among high level players, macro and build orders are all good/indistinguishable is like saying that all go pros use good joseki, and whole board strategy, so all you should study is the joseki, and whole board strategy. It's important, don't get me wrong. I love to study joseki, because the more you know, the more proper responses you can come up with for the whole board, but it isn't the end of the game if I screw up a joseki, and there are things to try if you're behind in the whole board. Granted, Go!=SC2, but I think the analogy stands.

I've seen pros bork a build order, I have seen them recover from screwing up a build order. I screw up my macro all the time, and have to rely on my pitiful micro to try to beat the poor bronzie I'm matched with. sometimes it even works.

My point is, while macro is important, build order is important, but it isn't the only skill you need to worry about. You need to focus on it, sure, but what good is having twice as many zealots as your opponent has marauders if you let the terran kite them into their 2 banshees?

I'm just a silly bronze. And I win a lot of games on macro. But I don't think it's the only thing you should ever worry about. But I'm probably wrong

[MountainGo]

My point is, while macro is important, build order is important, but it isn't the only skill you need to worry about. You need to focus on it, sure, but what good is having twice as many zealots as your opponent has marauders if you let the terran kite them into their 2 banshees?

No one is saying it's good to send your units into a situation where they're going to die without doing any damage whatsoever. The point is that no matter what crazy combat scenario you're given, it takes a lot of skill and attention to get results better than attack-moving, and even then it's not worth it if it means letting your production buildings go idle.

As for build order, if what you mean is choosing a good one, then that should just be a once and done thing. That pdf (written by a Korean pro) recommends choosing one and only one build and practicing it to (near-) perfection--against both humans and AI. In virtually every game I see from low-league players, I notice that the loser could have easily won with better macro mechanics alone.

The point about all pros being equally good at macro is, I think, just to illustrate that it is a necessary first step. That alone doesn't prove that it is the easiest way to improve initially. But it is. Really. And I've never heard an expert player say otherwise.

Maybe your chief goal isn't to improve as much as possible. Maybe you find it boring to focus only on macro mechanics. That's completely valid (just ask shygost, who refuses to do any complex reading simply because he doesn't like to), in which case none of this applies to you.

I've been trying to think of an accurate go analogy, and I just can't. It must be because there is no dexterity involved in go. But imagine if there were! If you had to toss the stones onto the board from a foot away and let them lie where they fell, then there would be no point in focusing on strategy until you reached a very high accuracy with your tosses!

EDIT: I could probably blab on and on all day about this, and I'm pretty sure I basically have already throughout this thread. I'm not sure why it gets me so riled up. But at this point, if anyone still wants to disagree, then there's not much I can say. I would definitely recommend, though, reading that entire piece by Ver (regardless of your skill level). I found it inspiring and invigorating.