82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

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Numsgil
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Move 48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
He loses the game of chicken. :) Responding made my move sente. Black will have to chose whether he wants to defend territory or destroy more of mine. I'm pushing because I don't think I can effectively jump or knight's jump further in. I think this should end in sente for me as well, unless black wants to try and treat this as some sort of forcing exchange, but I think that would just be inconsistent.

Then I can decide between taking territory on the bottom, saving moyo on the left, or destroying moyo on the top. I'm leaning towards taking territory on the bottom, since it also sort of creates a bit of moyo in the center/right again.
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Aphelion
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm49 Move 49
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Numsgil
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm50 Move 50
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
I could take sente and go for a big point, but I think I can get this in sente.


Tactics and Variations
If I try to jump, black can cut if he wants. Need to get more liberties before I can try this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . 1 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 3 2 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 5 4 O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . 6 O 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 8 0 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Aphelion
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Move 51
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry for the delay
I remember there was some problem with this move but I don't want to delay the game further.
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Numsgil
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Move 52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Okay, I don't get that in sente. At least not right now.

This move may look passive, but it aims at an aggressive attack against black. I just want to make sure these 3 stones don't come under a stronger attack during the ensuing chaos.

Circled points are possible attack points. The circled white stone can't be captured in a single move, because none of the ladders work for black. (edit: ah, actually the net at G10 looks like it would capture the stone. But I could build thickness for my moyo if he tried it, so not something I'm worried too much about).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Move 52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X C . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . X . X C . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black defends against these threats, I get sente to attack up top again.
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Aphelion
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 Move 53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O B . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I badly want to tenuki to C17 or N3 but if B plays G9 the cuts look really bad. This removes all cuts and makes my group very strong.
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youngjae
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by youngjae »

Not for players
Numsgil wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Move 52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Okay, I don't get that in sente. At least not right now.

This move may look passive, but it aims at an aggressive attack against black. I just want to make sure these 3 stones don't come under a stronger attack during the ensuing chaos.

Circled points are possible attack points. The circled white stone can't be captured in a single move, because none of the ladders work for black. (edit: ah, actually the net at G10 looks like it would capture the stone. But I could build thickness for my moyo if he tried it, so not something I'm worried too much about).


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Move 52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X C . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . X . X C . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay this is my first time posting with a diagram so sorry if I make a mistake, but I could not let this move go without commenting.

This type of move is seen all too commonly and is based on an error of logic. In Go black and white alternate, so the only time you would play a move which 'aims' at a certain follow up is:
a. If the move itself is beneficial to you, or
b. If the move aims at multiple plays so the opponent will struggle to defend completely.

If you aim at one move, and then your opponent defends, unless you have benefited, you should not have made the exchange in the first place.

I understand white wants sente, but the top is not a good target at the moment as it is not very big. Sure, white is removing some black territory, but playing on dame points to do so is hardly good. For the above reasons, IMO in the game white 52 is slack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Move 52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X C . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O . . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 W X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X C X C . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would suggest that white play as in the above diagram. This move will leave black full of cutting points and white will be able to fight and make a decent profit due to the strength of the surrounding white formations.

It is worth mentioning, however, that the previous black move was a little slack also. Black should have simply played 52 himself gripping the white stone and removing all the aji. If black had played in this way, then white would have not had the opportunity to counterattack.
Last edited by youngjae on Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Numsgil
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Move 54
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Back defends, so I have sente.

By my rough count, the bottom is worth 15 and either the left or top is worth more like 10 points. The bottom is worth more because it also resurrects the moyo down there. A follow up move at 'a' later in the game makes a moyo with only a single open border AND it aims at some sort of fun in black's corner. (edit: hmm, actually maybe the sides are worth more like 20. But hopefully still miai-ish).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations
If black tries this, I'll just cause more pain on the top. These moves are roughly equal value, so they're like miai. I can cut :b2: off, but I'm not super sure the end result actually favors me.

I'm a teensy bit worried about my corner on the top with this variation, since black can still invade (and aim for a ko locally I think). If white plays this way I'll have to decide if the corner is bigger, if it needs to be saved, etc.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . 3 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Aphelion
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm55 Move 55
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The other big point.
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Numsgil
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm56 Move 56
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Or he can jump into the corner right now...

I think I can force a ko. I'm not sure if that's still absolutely true with the stones to the right, and this is an area of corner invasions I'm not super confident with. So I'm not going to suggest a sequence. We'll see what he does.

Blocking the other way crossed my mind, but it gives black too much of the corner uncontested.


Tactics and Variations
This is the sequence I'm thinking of. It ends in a ko for black. White looks sort of thin here if black wins the ko, though.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Perception »

White 3 lets black live/connect out.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is normally the sequence for a ko in the corner I think but because of black's stone at f17 black can avoid the ko by connecting with 4 at c18 (or play the 2 - 3 exchange shown above first).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Dusk Eagle »

I think these are the two most common ways to play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 6 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 X 1 . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 5 X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Either way, black lives without ko. I don't think black will be dissatisfied no matter which way white plays.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Aphelion
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm57 Move 57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Lets see which way he blocks. If he blocks the right side He gets to destroy a bit of territory on top but I doubt that compensates him for the greater loss in the corner.
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Numsgil
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Numsgil »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 Move 58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
I think this is an alternate sequence that also ends in ko.

This white stone also somewhat threatens to activate the aji of my stone at H17 if my stones in the corner become strong (ie: if I win the ko).
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Aphelion
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Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]

Post by Aphelion »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 Move 58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . X , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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