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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #101 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:40 pm 
Lives in sente
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Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm93 Moves 93 - 95 Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 3 . 1 X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O . O 2 O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I will carefully evaluate if I can take sente after this, but my gut feeling is I can.
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #102 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:51 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X W 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . X B . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O . O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Note that with :bc:, :wc: can be absolutely killed with :b1:.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #103 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:23 pm 
Lives in gote
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm96 Moves Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 X . X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O . O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations
Black can't play like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O 5 . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 X 3 X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O 2 O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . 4 . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm honestly not sure what black will do instead, but whatever it is, I'm pretty sure I build up strength.

Maybe it'll go like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . 4 X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 X 2 X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O 3 O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #104 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:39 pm 
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KGS: Aphelion02
2 issues that come to mind:

1. Can I tenuki?
2. If I don't tenuki, is H14 my sente?
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Offline schilds
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #105 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:02 pm 
Dies with sente
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Not for players:
White is very strong at wishful thinking :p.

I don't think white can sever the connection between the two black groups in sente. However, I don't think black ends in sente either, simply because any time white realises he can't stop 2 eyes forming up top, he should ask himself which is bigger: stopping a 0 point, gote black connection in gote (thus inducing black to invade his 'moyo' to make a 2nd eye for the group in the middle) or solidifying his 'moyo', removing room for a 2nd black eye in the middle and forcing black to make a 0 point, gote connection to the top.

_________________
19/02/2011: this grumpy person takes a voluntary holiday from L19.


Last edited by schilds on Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #106 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:18 pm 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm97 Moves Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X B X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O . O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is sente, but not so clear cut:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X 6 . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . 3 . X X . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O 4 . 5 . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O 1 O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 2 . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #107 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:07 pm 
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm98 Moves Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O 1 O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #108 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:35 pm 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm99 Move 99 Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . B . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #109 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:46 pm 
Lives in gote
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KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm100 Move 100 Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . 1 . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Uh... either black has decided to sacrifice this group or he thinks he can live even if I get another move in the area, which just isn't true. I think. This is a pretty big kill, so I won't hesitate at all to take it. If black actually is alive, and ended up living in sente essentially, I'll be in too much trouble and I'll probably be forced to resign.

If I kill black, the whole central region becomes basically dame, so to win I'll need to eek out more points in the few places remaining.


Tactics and Variations
Anyway, below is one possible variation. 'a' and 'b' are miai for black's death.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . 1 2 X X . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . 3 C O 4 . b . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #110 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:05 pm 
Dies with sente

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Numsgil wrote:
Tactics and Variations
Anyway, below is one possible variation. 'a' and 'b' are miai for black's death.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O a . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . 1 2 X X . . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . 3 C O 4 . b . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a and b are actually miai for black to live.
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #111 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:05 pm 
Lives in sente
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Rank: KGS 4 kyu
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KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 Move 101 Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O B . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #112 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:06 pm 
Lives in gote
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KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm102 Move 102 Prisoners: B + 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X O X . 1 . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations
There was a few minutes of "oh crap" when I stared at the position. I can't capture like below. Black wins.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X 5 6 O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O 3 X X 7 8 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . 1 C O X . 2 . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fortunately, I don't have to defend against the single stone capture, because it just forms a false eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X 5 6 O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O 3 O 2 X X 7 8 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X C X . 1 9 . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #113 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:18 pm 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Move 103 Prisoners: B + 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O 2 O 1 X X 3 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X . X . O . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #114 Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:57 pm 
Dies with sente

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Numsgil wrote:
Fortunately, I don't have to defend against the single stone capture, because it just forms a false eye.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X 5 6 O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O 3 O 2 X X 7 8 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X C X . 1 9 . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | X . . . X X X . . . . . O O . X O X . |
$$ | O O . O O O X . X , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . O X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O O X X O 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X . X 5 7 O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X . O 3 O 2 X X 6 a . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . X C X . 1 8 . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X X b . O X . . . . . |
$$ | X . . . . O O O O O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |[/go]

a and b are miai after this so white can't make the eye false. I think that the move that Aphelion came up with works though as well.
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #115 Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:26 am 
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I resign. Well played.

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #116 Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:44 am 
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Redundant wrote:
White should not have played this variation of the 3-3. He should have taken sente somehow (there's a bunch of ways to do this).


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Move 32
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O O . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Here, yeah? I sort of know how to take sente from a 3-3 invasion (I think I could piece the sequence together in a proper game if I had to), and I even toyed with the idea, but this seems like about an ideal situation as you're ever likely to get to use this joseki. And there's nothing urgent on the board that would demand sente.

So I don't see why you think I should have taken sente. Seems like a stylistic choice here.

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 82. Aphelion[5k] vs Numsgil[5k]
Post #117 Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:22 am 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Aphelion02
Thanks for the game. In response to Redundant's suggestion, I agree wholeheartedly, one of my primary fears at that stage of the game was losing sente. I was really worried that you would take sente somehow after that because P12 meant the difference between me having a weak stone too near your thick group vs a very efficient moyo set up. However, judging from the way you play, I figured you'd let me get away with sente after a 3-3 :).
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