87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Redundant »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 3 . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , 2 . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Come on ... play the trick ...

I recently learned this trap, but no one plays this joseki, and I'm not sure I have the guts to actually try it on someone, lest it backfire.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Shaddy »

Redundant wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 3 . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , 2 . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Come on ... play the trick ...

I recently learned this trap, but no one plays this joseki, and I'm not sure I have the guts to actually try it on someone, lest it backfire.

for a trick, it does not backfire very hard, and most people fall for it hook line and sinker.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Dusk Eagle »

http://senseis.xmp.net/?NineteenPointTrickPlay if you want to know what Redundant is talking about. Actually, I remember this move was played in a Malkovich game by Alakazam against Magicwand back on GoDiscussions, but Magicwand handled it properly with a rather disdainful comment to the effect of "He thought I would fall for that?"

I personally would feel more hesitant to play it in a Malkovich game, where your opponent has more time to think than in real life. But I definitely wnat to play it in real life, if only I could think about it during a game.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Kayres »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X B . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I guess this is common sense. I predict it to be going like in the following diagram,and it could give me a quite uncomfortable position on the left side, but I don't mind giving him something as long as I ensure that I have more. So since I cannot have everything, he must get something too :)


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X b . 2 . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O 1 . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


after this it will get a bit complicated, I will need to read deeper. But I think this is ok, all I want is to attach at ab or c.

or it will go like this, which is what I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X B . 2 . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O 1 . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . b . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In this case I think I will go with a or b. that's likely. Maybe even c.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by ketchup »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O 4 . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


See last message. The only thing I'm thinking of is to figure out which type of pincer I should make here. Is there a choice? We'll see.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Kayres »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 24
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . B . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

yeah
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by ketchup »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 6 X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I can take the gamble on what this will lead to. I THINK it's a mistake by black here. Instincts tell me it's a mistake(I strongly feel it is a mistake here). I definitely want to take advantage of it, but I am hesitant due to my habit of hastily aiming for aji to exploit. This is a blitz habit for sure. Oh well, I will push in here to see how he responds. That will decide a lot. If anything, I think if his morale is high, this should knock it down a peg or two. Still beneficial in the long run. Honestly, I have a hard time seeing what he can respond with here that would make g17 a good move for black.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Dusk Eagle »

ketchup wrote:Oh well, I will push in here to see how he responds.

Black will obviously not play any other move than F18 here. You should consider that an automatic response and read what happens after that block. If you can get something beneficial afterward, push though. Otherwise, you're only wasting a liberty and committing aji keshi.

In reality, black's move isn't a mistake, but neither is white's. I just think the thinking here is incorrect.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by walleye »

ketchup wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 6 X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I can take the gamble on what this will lead to. I THINK it's a mistake by black here. Instincts tell me it's a mistake(I strongly feel it is a mistake here). I definitely want to take advantage of it, but I am hesitant due to my habit of hastily aiming for aji to exploit. This is a blitz habit for sure. Oh well, I will push in here to see how he responds. That will decide a lot. If anything, I think if his morale is high, this should knock it down a peg or two. Still beneficial in the long run. Honestly, I have a hard time seeing what he can respond with here that would make g17 a good move for black.


for ketchup
What sequence of moves are you expecting after your 26?
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by ketchup »

walleye wrote:
for ketchup
What sequence of moves are you expecting after your 26?


For Walleye

Honestly, this just opens too much aji. So I must take first. The overall development for white is opened up, whereas black is limited. I think the problem I have with any other move is that it doesn't take the most advantage of this black's weaker move? I'm aware this could be due to my bad reading too though, but that's how I feel about it. This is why I pushed directly rather than trying to take it later. I sincerely feel it is not the right move for black here. I can imagine too many variations here, and that's why I just played out the first move to get it out of there. Also, as I said, a big part is just morale killer. I think for black to make this move, he was feeling very good. I want to disrupt that feeling by far. To me, that is reasonable. I can see the reason why it might be called hasty, and it's why I was hesitant to play the move here.

Lastly, let's not forgot. I play this game to experiment and have fun. Winning a game means very little for me. I want to have fun while expanding my knowledge of the game. If I win, it's a nice bonus, but not really why I'm doing this at all.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by walleye »

ketchup wrote:
walleye wrote:
for ketchup
What sequence of moves are you expecting after your 26?


For Walleye

...I'm aware this could be due to my bad reading too though...


ketchup:
So you've done some reading. Can you show us just one variation? In your opinion, what would be a reasonable sequence of moves for both players? I will even make it easier for you. Just tell us what do you think will happen after black responds at F18.
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by ketchup »

walleye wrote:ketchup:
So you've done some reading. Can you show us just one variation? In your opinion, what would be a reasonable sequence of moves for both players? I will even make it easier for you. Just tell us what do you think will happen after black responds at F18.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Captures: B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 2 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 X X 1 X 6 . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O 5 . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is too easy on white, so I think at 31, it will be at 33 instead. The aji of 32 is too much to allow.

Clean capture hurts white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Captures: B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . b O O 3 a . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This leaves white way too weak and also white ruins the aji this way(30 is bad). He has to play catch up, and cannot pincer as he would like due to a and b here.

White should take the option to play solidly here I believe. Playing at the atari at e18 directly.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Captures: B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 3 X 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This last variation is the most solid in my view. I do not believe the result is fun for black to have to suffer, especially when you consider the overall stones. It pretty much comes down to what black feels is the best play.

Lastly, just in case. This just does not make sense(to me) for black to play this way. The overall strength of his top left stones is way too little to allow this. I also feel I can ignore a ladder breaker on the right side, and take the g17 stone if needed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Captures: B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X 3 . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I know nothing.
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Kayres
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Kayres »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I guess I don't have much of a choice here.
What is important in this variation is that you have to be wary of a move at a. He could play this way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . c B b . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or, which needs some deeper analysis, he decides to cut first at b or c. All I want here is to be settled in a satisfying way and have sente to get the last big points I mentioned already. After that I will try to chase his right group through the center and build thickness underneath or above it.

If I have thickness above it, I can invade his top right group. Although this seems a bit difficult because he played a slower move there, making an ogeima instead of an 3 space diagonal extension.

So the plan is to build some thickness underneath to get a nice moyo on bottom. So this is my wished outcome:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 26
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . # . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . e d . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To have some good working stones at around a and b.

Besides, any exchange on the left side, like for example d for e, will help me put more pressure on his group on the right.

I am glad I played :bs: . It looks helpful to my plans ;)
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ketchup
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by ketchup »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Happy New Year!
I know nothing.
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Kayres
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Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Post by Kayres »

Happy new year :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O X . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . , O O . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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