89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:32 am

Morning Mnemonic, I'm hoping to get some revenge here after getting thrashed in our tourney game on KGS.

Well, you can still win the second game

Damn, it's easier to win when your opponent isn't fighting back. In retrospect I maybe should have jump one more time, although he could've probably sealed me in the corner :-?

I really can't tenuki from his attack. If those stones die it is going to be very hard getting back into this game.
My options are cut, run or extend. I don't like running because it is too passive and feels like playing dame (which looses you the game) I don't like cutting either because I strengthen his stones while weakening my own. At the moment I'm considering this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . C X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . a C . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I tried to find something else but he's choking me pretty good :sad:

You are not supposed to attach to weak stones, but I could really use some strength right now and a corner enclosure isn’t all that weak to begin with. I marked the most common responses to a shoulder hit and here is what I am thinking.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 something like this $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . 2 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , 3 1 4 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 Although this doesn't look too good ... $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 2 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 3 5 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . 7 9 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . 4 8 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Conclusion: I'll have to think about this (And: go is hard)

Much thanks to the observer and especially to EdLee who, for some reason, is very diligent in explaining our many shortcomings :mrgreen:

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:59 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 4 . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 If he cut's I will treat my stone lightly $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . 9 8 1 2 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . 5 4 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . 7 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 If not, this isn't much diferent. But we'll see when we get there $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . 1 2 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . 5 . 4 . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Other Options he has:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 If he peeps this seems ok $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . 4 2 . 1 5 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have a feeling there is a big battle ahead and it's happening on his terms. :sad:

I have to get my bearings straight. These long games require a different kind of confidence and stamina then the blitz games I'm used to.

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:26 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O 5 . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here's my move, I'll post my thinking later.

Edit:

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:40 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yup, just what I thought. The standard response to that push of Black is :w1:

, but that makes me heavy and after the cap I'll be running for life. His Formation would be pretty loose, so I think I can get out, but he will be profiting from attacking my group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Influence and big corner $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . 1 3 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . 5 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . 2 6 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is way too good for Black and white is really hurting now. So let’s reevaluate the board: What is my goal on the upper side?
The :ex:

are white points, :es:

are black points. In theory black has a bigger corner but I still have funny shenanigans with either point a. Usually this gets black really nice influence, but as long as my marked stones live he can only profit on the right side: where I have L17

So unless Black plays a very slow and defensive gote move to defend the corner, I have more raw points.
Let’s look at weak groups: Black has the running group :bc:

, but at least its running and not dying like my :wc:

stones. If white looses those stones he can resign. They are now effectively invading a huge black moyo and are stealing the base of blacks group. So we have our first and most important goal: Whites marked stones need to stay alive
After I saved my stones (like in the upper diagram) am I winning the game? No! So what do I need to do to get back into the game? Black only has one weak group which I need to pressure. The thing is, I am way too weak at the moment to even be thinking about cutting at b. So there it a secondary goal: Get strong without strengthening black on the left
How do I do that: by attacking the right. I really don't mind if black gets the :ec:

points as long as I get out in a position to attack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm24 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . M . . . . . . . . . C S S . . . . | $$ | . . M . O B . . W . . . X S S . a . . | $$ | . M . O . B . . . , . O X . . X . a . | $$ | . M . . . . . . W . . . C C C . . . . | $$ | . . O . . B . b . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So this is what I'm reading at the moment:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm26 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . a c . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . b . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I'm going with my first choice: It looks so wrong that I think my opponent will not read deep enough. You can look into this post to see some variations.

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:23 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . O . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Again, I want to continue the attack on this group. I don't expect it to die, but hopefully I can gain strength through attacking, and white will be forced to answer.

Rather than continuing to encircle the group, I considered trying to cut with something like the below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . 7 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . 7 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But as far as I can tell, these all work out badly after a fight. Attack from a distance, so they say, and so I will. An obvious move initially would be something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . 6 . 8 . 9 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But this is no good, I think, since white can easily link to his stone on the right hand side, as well as possibly threatening my corner. I think I would be better off attacking from the right, forcing white to run out into the centre, but allowing me to stake out a pretty big corner moyo in the process

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . O . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If it gets to something like the above then black may well turn back to attack my central group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . O . 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I think there is plenty of space for me to break out, and his own central group will not be invulnerable either.

Of course, he might tenuki after my B27 - he might think his group has room to live. If so, I'd like to ignore his tenuki and continue the attack, but obviously it depends what he plays. I'd very much like to come out of this exchange with sente, and approach the bottom left.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:29 am

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:25 am

Hmmm...I've been looking at the lower right corner and thinking...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . 3 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It seems like I can almost reduce the corner to a dead bulky five shape - but every sequence I've thought of just about fails for black. Since my reading is so bad though, this makes me wonder if there might be a successful sequence that I've missed.

More likely, I could attack in this way and force white to defend a small corner, while building influence on the outside. For now though, I think I should leave it there as aji to consider exploiting later.

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:52 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . 8 O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, this is the cutting sequence I'm aiming at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . C . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . C . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X 4 1 . . . O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 3 2 X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |[/go]

But my formation has 2 weak points that I'd like to fix before attacking (marked :ec:

in the upper diagram) The 3 Points I marked in the lower Diagram protect both cuts and give my group much needed stability. I think out of the 3 my marked stone is the best because he has a bit more influence towards the middle.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . a O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . a . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . W O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |[/go]

I am torn between playing this and jumping out again. Jumping out would ensure access to the center but I'm very afraid of a cut. Like I said: If I lose my J17 group I could resign. :-?

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:19 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White's move surprises me a little. It seems slow, and it seems to make White over-concentrated (inasmuch as I understand that concept).

I can only assume that he played it to make eye shape in that area. I suppose this means he plans to live on the side, but surely it would be easier to continue running out in the middle - doing that would also continue forcing responses to me.

Overall, this seems like a mistake to me - but perhaps my opponent has some plan in mind that has escaped me. The question is: how should I take advantage. Option 1 is to continue attacking the group.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . 9 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something like this does not seem that severe. Playing 29 one space to the left would let White push through at N13. If I'm correctly guessing the intent of his last move, perhaps he will ignore a capping move from me, since he plans to live on the side.

How about taking away the base:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . 9 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both of these moves look kind of interesting to me, but if I play them in this position (without capping first) white can just jump out to the centre, which I'd rather he didn't do.

So how about tenuki? White's weak group is still inside my sector line, so is still not safe. If I can make a big move elsewhere and keep sente, I can return to attack the weak group again later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The trouble here, of course, is that white might simply ignore my approach, and then things don't look so good to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the end I think I'll continue attacking, since that's what I like to do best. After some thought the initial knight's move looks okay. It keeps white firmly within my sphere of influence, and aims at making a big moyo on the right. If he jumps again I can respond on the left, protecting my weak group and even aiming at a moyo on that side later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 4 . 5 . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In doing this, I realise I'm giving him the chance to tenuki, maybe with some of the useful-looking points below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . c . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . b , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I'm willing to accept that.

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:14 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . 2 . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Jumping now gives me a bad result

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Sealing me in $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 "Disrupt the bamboo joint"-Tesuji $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I can get out like this however, if I really have to

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 I get out, with bad shape $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 4 5 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

It does strengthen the left side though :sad:

I purposefully let me get sealed in because I wanted to cut. The only sensible thing to do is to follow through so I'm going to cut now and start a big fight. Hopefully I can regain some points that I lost due to being stupid in the opening.
I showed you the cut sequence in my last post, this may be the other option he has.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Probably better for black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X 2 1 . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Edit

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I considered:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I think this ends up with the black stones on the left being cut off.

I expect something like the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 4 . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . 6 . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not dead set on sealing white in - it would be nice, of course, but it doesn't seem that likely. The plan is to build a couple of half-decent frameworks in the course of attacking him, then use these to make territory later.

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:50 am

For what it's worth, I thought I would post my judgement of the game as it stands. This is something I've been trying to work on lately. I just read Attack and Defense, which was very enlightening if a little over my head at times, and it has a good section on judging the status of the game.

At the moment I feel like I am leading. I have no territory, while white has some small territory in the bottom right and some fairly likely (but not definite) territory in the upper left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? ? O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | ? ? ? O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | ? ? . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O ? | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O ? ? ? | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ? ? ? ? | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So black is behind in the balance of territory. However, I think I'm ahead in the balance of 'power' (as Attack and Defence phrases it). I have a sketchy but large framework in the top right corner :bx:

, some outside influence in the bottom right :bc:

and an extension along the bottom that looks reasonably secure for now :bt:

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . Z . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O Z . . Z . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . Z . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . Z . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . B B . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . Y . . Y . O . B O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At the top, my weak group has access to the centre and is (I think) beginning to have a mildly maleficent effect on the top left corner. White's top group will have to fight to avoid getting sealed in, and meanwhile I am building moyos on both sides.

So I would say I have the best of things so far. They can certainly change though.

White might push through somehow and leave me with a weak, isolated group at the top :bc:

. (These are just rough sequences that I haven't really thought out)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O B . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . B . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . B . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 4 . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . B . 6 7 . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He might make a stable position on the right, take the bottom left, then live comfortably at the top.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . 0 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . 7 , 9 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These are just some roughly sketched dangers I can see. Still, as well as feeling like I am in the lead, I also feel like I have the initiative at the moment. I suspect White may begin to invade soon, and hopefully I can keep the initiative by attacking the weak groups he makes inside.

This is my attempt at evaluating the game, anyway. I know I shouldn't have too much faith in my judgement, and am always ready to change my mind from one move to the next, but you have to have a go at judging the position. I'd be interested (after the game) to hear what stronger players think about my analysis here.

Ta. :tmbup:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:15 pm

Mnemonic wrote:
$$Wm1 "Disrupt the bamboo joint"-Tesuji
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1 "Disrupt the bamboo joint"-Tesuji $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . 3 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

How about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X 5 4 6 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 1 2 X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:06 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 2 X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Koroviev · Post by **Koroviev** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:20 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . O . . O O . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)

Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)