Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I kind of wanted to play "a", below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But I don't like it that much. Sure, I get a few stones in on the left side... But, it seems kind of over-concentrated, almost, with the tengen there:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe not over-concentrated... Imbalanced, I feel. If I play on the left, as is shown in the last diagram... Well, I feel like I'm neglecting the right.

I think that I've served my purpose in approaching on the bottom left. I think that the exchange was good for me:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . W . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I will now respond to his original approach.
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yoyoma
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by yoyoma »

@Kirby
@yoyoma
Maybe I am inconsistent without knowing it. I didn't really think about being inconsistent at this point in the game, but maybe I am.

He will approach left or bottom next (probably), and the tengen will give me support to pincer."

I just mean he did what you predicted, but then you didn't pincer as planned. It's the opening so really you can do almost anything but still its strange to say you will pincer and then not do it the very next move.
Last edited by yoyoma on Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


sofar he is solid. i will have to wait until the board get complicated. no other choice but to wait.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

@Kirby:
Stay focussed! Be aggressive!
I think you are easily strong enough to beat MW with 3 stones, but too often when the going gets rough you back down and let him have the unearned result. You have already made one timid move at R6, totally inconsistent with the tengen.


@Magicwand:
Write more! You tend to write what you are thinking after you have made your move. We want to know what you were thinking before you made your move.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

@Joaz
i will try.
but i really dont think much in the beginning other than little comment i put.
i will promise i will be detailed when things get complicated.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

yoyoma wrote:@Kirby
@yoyoma
Maybe I am inconsistent without knowing it. I didn't really think about being inconsistent at this point in the game, but maybe I am.

He will approach left or bottom next (probably), and the tengen will give me support to pincer."

I just mean he did what you predicted, but then you didn't pincer as planned. It's the opening so really you can do almost anything but still its strange to say you will pincer and then not do it the very next move.



Haha, good point.
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

@Joaz
Thanks for your comment, Joaz. I will try to keep my composure throughout this game.

I suppose by your comment with R6, you would have preferred that I played one of the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



These moves both have merit, but I'm not sure that I completely agree at this point. As stated, I feel that playing on the left side doesn't give good balance with the entire board. It dosen't seem like the biggest place to play.

As for playing high, as in the first diagram given above... Well, it may be a possibility. But I feel like it makes it too easy for white to play at "a" in the diagram. In contrast, with the move I played, that area is basically "done".

I will say that the first diagram given in this post seems like a good alternative choice to the move that I played... But I don't have a lot of regrets about playing the way that I did, because I think that it offers good balance.

I will also say that yoyoma brought up a good point in that I already changed my plans. I feel pretty confident, however, that the moves I have played so far are balanced and consistent.
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topazg
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by topazg »

@Kirby

Kirby wrote:These moves both have merit, but I'm not sure that I completely agree at this point. As stated, I feel that playing on the left side doesn't give good balance with the entire board. It dosen't seem like the biggest place to play.


I partially agree, though I am unsure if the approach and then tenuki has gained you much in itself. I presume you intend on treating it fairly lightly - have you considered your responses to White pincers in the lower left now?

Kirby wrote:As for playing high, as in the first diagram given above... Well, it may be a possibility. But I feel like it makes it too easy for white to play at "a" in the diagram. In contrast, with the move I played, that area is basically "done".


This illustrates Joaz' point nicely. Of course White can choose to play "a" just like you could have played H3 last move, but it's not appreciating the value of the position you've already built. You've got a nice influential 4-4 in the top right, and a tengen stone, and you're all kitted up for fighting. If you aren't willing to say "bring it on" and tempt White to overplay with "a", why play tengen? you are going to find the 3 handicap stones slowly whittled away through passivity unless you carry on the theme that you've started.

If you had played high, you can then get in a move like R11 which gives fantastic overall balance on the right. Here, I think it is harder for Black to find a move that balances the top right and lower right quite as nicely.

Just my 2c :)
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Observers:
Thanks for the comments so far. I have decided that I will not be reading any comments directed toward me until the end of the game. I appreciate the input, and will by all means read them at the end of the game. Until that time, though, I'd like to focus just on this game and my own thoughts of it - not on commentary.

As such, please don't be offended if I do not respond to comments directed to me until the end of the game. :)
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by gaius »

@Kirby:
Gotcha, I knew that you would open this before the game end!
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


every move he playes is a moves that i hate.
i dont think he will play as below because that is what i want.
as i said before one stone is an aji but two stone is too heavy to giveup.
i am sure kirby read my comment about aji and heavy before so he will not play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



i think his correct move sequence is as below.
so what i played is not optimal. :)
i am willing to play such moves to probe opponent's mind.
i might lose some points but i will understand his state of mind by looking at how he reply.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is also bad for white..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Chew Terr
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Chew Terr »

Magicwand wrote:
every move he playes is a moves that i hate.
i dont think he will play as below because that is what i want.
as i said before one stone is an aji but two stone is too heavy to giveup.
i am sure kirby read my comment about aji and heavy before so he will not play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



i think his correct move sequence is as below.
so what i played is not optimal. :)
i am willing to play such moves to probe opponent's mind.
i might lose some points but i will understand his state of mind by looking at how he reply.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is also bad for white..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Huh, I dunno if I've ever seen that response before. Interesting...
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Mnemonic
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Mnemonic »

Yeah, I also haven't seen this before (although what have I seen before?)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 X . 4 . . . .
$$ | 7 2 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

:w5: should be too slow because usually black has sente after such a sequence. But what if white then plays the wedge?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . .
$$ | O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . O . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

I would be happy as white, even if black tenuki's once (I think)
Am I reading this wrong? :scratch:
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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shapenaji
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by shapenaji »

Mnemonic wrote:
Yeah, I also haven't seen this before (although what have I seen before?)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 X . 4 . . . .
$$ | 7 2 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

:w5: should be too slow because usually black has sente after such a sequence. But what if white then plays the wedge?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . .
$$ | O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . O . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

I would be happy as white, even if black tenuki's once (I think)
Am I reading this wrong? :scratch:

Yeah, I don't really like this for black... though black wouldn't play like in the last diagram
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 X . 3 a . . .
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


Black really needs to pull back at 5, this is okay I suppose, it keeps white from playing (a) easily... but it just seems like such a waste of corner aji. If you want to play this way, 1 is pointless, just do this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . 1 . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . a . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . b . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


this way you have threats at a and b later
Tactics yes, Tact no...
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I've been thinking about this position for awhile, and I think that I am going to tenuki for now. White has played a number of stones in that area, while I still have aji with my single stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B a . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . W . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even if white plays at "a", the stone is not dead, yet.

Also, he tenukied after I played at R5 anyway, so I'd like to get some benefit in that area.

I decided to play a two space pincer, because it seems like white could easily ignore a one space pincer. For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . B . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, white can still pincer, but he doesn't get as much of a benefit from it:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . B . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
be immersed
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