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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #21 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:31 am 
Honinbo

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yoyoma wrote:
@Kirby
Quote:
@yoyoma
Maybe I am inconsistent without knowing it. I didn't really think about being inconsistent at this point in the game, but maybe I am.

Quote:
He will approach left or bottom next (probably), and the tengen will give me support to pincer."

I just mean he did what you predicted, but then you didn't pincer as planned. It's the opening so really you can do almost anything but still its strange to say you will pincer and then not do it the very next move.



Haha, good point.

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #22 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:19 am 
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@Joaz
Thanks for your comment, Joaz. I will try to keep my composure throughout this game.

I suppose by your comment with R6, you would have preferred that I played one of the following:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



These moves both have merit, but I'm not sure that I completely agree at this point. As stated, I feel that playing on the left side doesn't give good balance with the entire board. It dosen't seem like the biggest place to play.

As for playing high, as in the first diagram given above... Well, it may be a possibility. But I feel like it makes it too easy for white to play at "a" in the diagram. In contrast, with the move I played, that area is basically "done".

I will say that the first diagram given in this post seems like a good alternative choice to the move that I played... But I don't have a lot of regrets about playing the way that I did, because I think that it offers good balance.

I will also say that yoyoma brought up a good point in that I already changed my plans. I feel pretty confident, however, that the moves I have played so far are balanced and consistent.

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #23 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:32 am 
Tengen
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@Kirby

Kirby wrote:
These moves both have merit, but I'm not sure that I completely agree at this point. As stated, I feel that playing on the left side doesn't give good balance with the entire board. It dosen't seem like the biggest place to play.


I partially agree, though I am unsure if the approach and then tenuki has gained you much in itself. I presume you intend on treating it fairly lightly - have you considered your responses to White pincers in the lower left now?

Kirby wrote:
As for playing high, as in the first diagram given above... Well, it may be a possibility. But I feel like it makes it too easy for white to play at "a" in the diagram. In contrast, with the move I played, that area is basically "done".


This illustrates Joaz' point nicely. Of course White can choose to play "a" just like you could have played H3 last move, but it's not appreciating the value of the position you've already built. You've got a nice influential 4-4 in the top right, and a tengen stone, and you're all kitted up for fighting. If you aren't willing to say "bring it on" and tempt White to overplay with "a", why play tengen? you are going to find the 3 handicap stones slowly whittled away through passivity unless you carry on the theme that you've started.

If you had played high, you can then get in a move like R11 which gives fantastic overall balance on the right. Here, I think it is harder for Black to find a move that balances the top right and lower right quite as nicely.

Just my 2c :)


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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #24 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:50 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Observers:
Thanks for the comments so far. I have decided that I will not be reading any comments directed toward me until the end of the game. I appreciate the input, and will by all means read them at the end of the game. Until that time, though, I'd like to focus just on this game and my own thoughts of it - not on commentary.

As such, please don't be offended if I do not respond to comments directed to me until the end of the game. :)

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This post by Kirby was liked by 2 people: Kayres, quantumf
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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #25 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:15 am 
Lives in gote
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@Kirby:
Gotcha, I knew that you would open this before the game end!

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When in doubt, play the most aggressive move


This post by gaius was liked by 6 people: DeFlow, entropi, gasana, Kirby, Phelan, topazg
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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #26 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:21 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


every move he playes is a moves that i hate.
i dont think he will play as below because that is what i want.
as i said before one stone is an aji but two stone is too heavy to giveup.
i am sure kirby read my comment about aji and heavy before so he will not play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



i think his correct move sequence is as below.
so what i played is not optimal. :)
i am willing to play such moves to probe opponent's mind.
i might lose some points but i will understand his state of mind by looking at how he reply.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is also bad for white..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #27 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:26 am 
Gosei
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Magicwand wrote:
every move he playes is a moves that i hate.
i dont think he will play as below because that is what i want.
as i said before one stone is an aji but two stone is too heavy to giveup.
i am sure kirby read my comment about aji and heavy before so he will not play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



i think his correct move sequence is as below.
so what i played is not optimal. :)
i am willing to play such moves to probe opponent's mind.
i might lose some points but i will understand his state of mind by looking at how he reply.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is also bad for white..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Huh, I dunno if I've ever seen that response before. Interesting...

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #28 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:38 am 
Lives in gote
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KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Yeah, I also haven't seen this before (although what have I seen before?)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 X . 4 . . . .
$$ | 7 2 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

:w5: should be too slow because usually black has sente after such a sequence. But what if white then plays the wedge?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . .
$$ | O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . O . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

I would be happy as white, even if black tenuki's once (I think)
Am I reading this wrong? :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #29 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:54 am 
Lives in sente
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Mnemonic wrote:
Yeah, I also haven't seen this before (although what have I seen before?)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 6 . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 X . 4 . . . .
$$ | 7 2 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

:w5: should be too slow because usually black has sente after such a sequence. But what if white then plays the wedge?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . .
$$ | O . O . . . . . .
$$ | . O . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]

I would be happy as white, even if black tenuki's once (I think)
Am I reading this wrong? :scratch:

Yeah, I don't really like this for black... though black wouldn't play like in the last diagram
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 X . 3 a . . .
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


Black really needs to pull back at 5, this is okay I suppose, it keeps white from playing (a) easily... but it just seems like such a waste of corner aji. If you want to play this way, 1 is pointless, just do this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 X . 1 . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . a . O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . b . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------[/go]


this way you have threats at a and b later

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #30 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:14 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I've been thinking about this position for awhile, and I think that I am going to tenuki for now. White has played a number of stones in that area, while I still have aji with my single stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B a . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . W . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even if white plays at "a", the stone is not dead, yet.

Also, he tenukied after I played at R5 anyway, so I'd like to get some benefit in that area.

I decided to play a two space pincer, because it seems like white could easily ignore a one space pincer. For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . B . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now, white can still pincer, but he doesn't get as much of a benefit from it:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . B . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #31 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:49 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tengen is an interesting start to a 3 stone game. :) But then Black follows with four moves on the third line. None of these moves is bad, but the overall result is, IMO, inconsistent. I do not think that it is enough, as a rule, just to use tengen as a ladder breaker or a stone to run to during fights. You want to use it to create a huge framework.Playing low because you have played high already does not get that done.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . 6 . b . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b4: could be at 6, but after :w5: :b6: is big. White is threatening to make a nice framework on the bottom side. It is very hard for White to make the small extension to "a", and if :w3: extends to "b", Black can extend to "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b8: is a nice play. :) But the fact that, even with tengen to run to, running out is not so great, shows the inconsistency of Black's play so far. I think that :b8: would be better at "a". It is harder to attack and works better with tengen.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b a 0 . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b10: is good, but "a" would be better, IMO, as it allows White to extend to "b".

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Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #32 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:25 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


my thought:

1. his tenuki is a mistake in my opinion.
2. i will attack one stone as below and get sente to play "a"
3. i wasnt sure if playing "b" before the cap is beneficial. i guess it really dont matter at our level. :)
4. my cap will separate his group and more chance for me to make it complicated.
5. is cap an overplay? i wont call it an overpaly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . b X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #33 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:19 am 
Lives in gote
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When I see the thread title, it always reminds me about the Tropic Thunder movie with Ben Stiller:

Trailer Announcer: [voice over] In 2013, when the Earth's rotation came to a halt...the world called on the one man who could make a difference. When it happened again, the world called on him once more. And no one saw it coming three more times! Now, the one man who made a difference five times before, is about to make a difference again. Only this time, it's different.
[Speedman is on an iceberg with everything behind him frozen. He has a set of twins on him and he's holding two rifles]
Tugg Speedman: Who left the fridge open?
Trailer Announcer: [voice over] Tugg Speedman. Scorcher Vl: Global Meltdown.
Tugg Speedman: [voice over] Here we go again. Again.

Attachment:
tropic-thunder.jpg
tropic-thunder.jpg [ 31.32 KiB | Viewed 7927 times ]

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Post #34 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:26 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that his move is forcing, so I don't have much commentary on this move. I don't think I can tenuki, which is one thing I considered. I also couldn't think of another good move in the area.

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #35 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:55 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


now this is a turning point of this game.
there are many traps and complications kirby have to pass which will not be easy.
i would like to draw diag but i dont even know what black should do. :)
i will just wait for his move and act accordingly.

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #36 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:10 am 
Judan
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@MW:
How did you decide on that particular move? What are your goals?

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #37 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:25 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@MW:
How did you decide on that particular move? What are your goals?
i was afraid he might play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . 4 6 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


what i want is something like below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . 7 . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . 4 . 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


like i said before i dont know what is right move after this cap.
one thing i know is that it is complicated for my opponent and it is intimidating.
unlike you i do not read too deep into the variation unless i have to and this is that instance where i dont really read into future move.
go with the feeling.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #38 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:14 pm 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
Magicwand wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@MW:
How did you decide on that particular move? What are your goals?
i was afraid he might play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . 4 6 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


what i want is something like below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . 7 . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . 4 . 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


like i said before i dont know what is right move after this cap.
one thing i know is that it is complicated for my opponent and it is intimidating.
unlike you i do not read too deep into the variation unless i have to and this is that instance where i dont really read into future move.
go with the feeling.


@MW:
You missed my question. What were you thinking before you played the cap?

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #39 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:40 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@MW:
You missed my question. What were you thinking before you played the cap?


i think i still missed your question.
i was thinking attack one stone and get flow to my side.
but i have a feeling that is not your question :)

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #40 Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:21 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 3 . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . 4 . 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w11: - :w13: is very interesting. :)

:b14: looks good, but starts a difficult fight.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 5 . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But if I were taking three stones, I think I would play :b14:. Now if :w15:, :b16: is big. The tengen stone hinders the development of White's framework.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . a . . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . 6 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 . . X . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If White replies with :w15:, "a" is possible, but I think that I would treat :b14: lightly and try :b16:. :)



Edit: Added a variation. :)

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