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Author Message
Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #21 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:22 pm 
Gosei
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Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
I think the last move White made was a bit premature. I think the simple move here is best. Note that this move also plays a large role in nullifying some of the central influence, like what White wanted, but is more "natural". It also makes the invasion around M17 more difficult and puts severe pressure on Q16, so it's a 3-in-1 move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 52 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . a O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

PS: 'a' :(.
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #22 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 4:39 pm 
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aphelion, im not sure if im allowed to read that. am i or not?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 53 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


ok going to reactivate the corner, and hopefully create an attack on the right side stones. kinda looking at this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 53 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . 2 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . 3 . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


his side doesnt look that big as it can still be reduced quite a bit, and its pretty flat anyway, and im building nicely on the side with those 2 white stones looking sad

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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #23 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 54 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . W X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This was one of the possibilities I had considered earlier when I played the double approach at Q14.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cI could end up cutting and start a fight
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O 2 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . W X 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . 1 5 6 . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cI might end up building up on both sides if he protects against a cut
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . W X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . 1 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . 4 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . 4 O 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . W X 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I'll probably get a good result here. If he runs I'll be able to build on both sides. If he gets sealed in he'll live small and I'll have strength on the outside. I've never seen this in any of my games so I'm not sure how it will go but it seems good for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c I'd like to be able to play around the marked point later when I'm stronger above
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . W X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . o . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #24 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:07 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 153
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 55 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


as planned


trigger:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 56-7? b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . X . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #25 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 5:52 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 56-58 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . W . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think black could have really played differently here, if he got cut in two there he would have been in trouble.

If he tries to wedge and cut I don't think that works out for him. I have some ideas where it could go but I really don't know and I'd rather not make random guesses. If anyone wants me to post some of them though I can.

edit: Decided to add one of the possibilities I thought of

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . X 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . 6 W 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 2 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by Perception on Tue May 04, 2010 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #26 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:02 pm 
Lives with ko

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 59 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . B X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


hmm that move seems bad to me. its like its inviting me to split his groups. i dont tihnk he can cut me but thats going to make me weak as well...so im looking for an attack on the right side

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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #27 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:32 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 60 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . W O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought about playing M15 here but it leaves cutting points and doesn't gain much for me or take much from black so I just extended to M16 because it's safer.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . W O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X 3 X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . 7 O 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 5 2 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now if he wedges and cuts I may let him have that one stone or if I extend with 6 at 7 it's almost the same situation as I showed in an earlier post.
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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #28 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:34 pm 
Gosei
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #29 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:35 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 61 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


ok lets do it. i think my group is fine because it can run into the center and take the corner

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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #30 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 62 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O W O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Unfortunately I failed to consider this. Not much choice other than connecting. I should still be fine though. More after he makes his next move since I just have to connect for now.
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #31 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 62 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . B X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


might push a time or two, then perhaps settle the corner, then see if i can deal with that pesky stone in the middle..perhaps this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 62 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O 5 . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . 4 2 O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 3 1 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #32 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 62 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . W O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think he's trying to build up so he can attack my capping stone. I don't think I can give up these three stones and I think there's room for me to run/make a living group in the middle so I'm extending.

If his corner group gets sealed in it's not guaranteed to live so he needs to be careful about that. I need to watch out for my capping stone, it's starting to look lonely.
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #33 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 62 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


yea this went against my last diagram but i think this is better. kinda expecting him to go after my top group now though. i should be fine hopefully

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #34 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 7:24 pm 
Gosei
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fwiffo wrote:
Image

QFT.

This unfortunately has been an error-fraught sequence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 56-58 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . W . O a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is no good because it neglects the 3-3 point, which is the vital point for taking away black's stability. It also does nothing to prevent the connection underneath at 'a'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 56-58 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . B X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move seems ok. White could not have connected anyway however (black could and would have cut), so I might have taken the 3-3 point here.

Edit:Actually, I would play this move, not the 3-3. The 3-3 would still be there afterward.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 56-58 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . W O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 56-58 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . . O a O b . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the oh-my-goodness-so-bad-why-why-why move. It's begging white to fix his weakness, both in the wedge at 'a' and the watari (connection) at 'b'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . . 2 O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is "Squeezing out the toothpaste" - bad for black. http://senseis.xmp.net/?SqueezingOutTheToothpaste

This is a hard position, so hopefully the players can learn from this later on.

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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #35 Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:40 pm 
Gosei
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What's remarkable is that both players are squeezing toothpaste in parallel. Usually one player squeezes the other into what would have been their territory. I didn't expect black to follow whites fluoridated mess with one of his own.

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Offline unkx80
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #36 Posted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:09 am 
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So much ugly toothpaste. I don't know what to say.

(Fwiffo and others got there first. I am late in following this game.)

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #37 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:11 pm 
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Sorry XDragon, unless I unhide them, you probably shouldn't read my comments yet
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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #38 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:16 pm 
Gosei
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fwiffo wrote:
...fluoridated mess...
lol!

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Offline Mosdefgo
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #39 Posted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:56 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
Image


I knew someone would post something like this. :lol:


Not for players until end of game:
I think that with a little more preperation, this could have been a very decent move. "Thats a huge moyo hes buildin thar". Although... it does have a lot of space to live in.
If he thinks the upper group is going to be attacked then it most likely will, but whose to say the unexpected wont happen. It certainly has for me. :roll:


Dusk Eagle:
Im glad that I agreed with you on the move at P13. It shows that even I can think like a 1k at times. ;-)
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Offline Perception
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich #20 - Perception vs xDragon
Post #40 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:36 pm 
Dies with sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cmove 64 b:1 w:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . W O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I've invested already two moves to keep those stones from being captured, if I abandon them now those moves would have made him stronger for nothing. Extending again keeps those stones from being captured and seals his group in.

If he ignores it to take sente I can play 'a' which I think kills his corner group. As the game currently stands I also can still play one of 'b' through 'e' to reduce his moyo. I'm not sure all of those actually work, they're just possibilities I may consider.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X O . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . O . O O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . . . . . W O O O O a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . e d . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . X X X X . . . . X c . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O X O O X X . . . b . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have a good amount of solid territory right now, around 50 - 60 points by my count. His moyo is very large but he has no actual territory yet so I have to make sure to reduce his moyo or I'll probably lose.

My internet was down over the weekend that's why I didn't post this sooner. Sorry for the delay.
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