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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #61 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:44 pm 
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@Loons
I just looked at a bunch of variations. It seems that if I answer B16 at A18, there are no real problems ... unless I'm misreading a lot.


Emerus: It's fine if you look at loons' question.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #62 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:11 pm 
Gosei
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Redundant, cont.

I was over-estimating this genre of result for black, perhaps (which you dealt with slightly differently). Hm, I just moved a stone from a to 10. Hmmm.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 O X X X X O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a 9 7 4 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 8 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #63 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:29 pm 
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@Loons:
Didn't see that variation. Good thing emerus didn't either!
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #64 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:31 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Choices? Yeah I'm going to tenuki so I guess I have a few...

From here on, I will try to list 3 moves that I consider and here they are: I want to find the open areas on the board and make it hard for white to find a good approach or invasion. So I choose to enclose the right corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . c . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #65 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:34 am 
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RE: Loons question

Yes I realized that I could force with b16 but idk, it seems like it wastes ko threats. I don't really care if white takes 3 stones.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #66 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:54 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm aiming to build a position here to attack his K17 stones. Either that, or I get the corner.
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Offline Puppycakes
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #67 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:19 pm 
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White's last move was tiny. The follow-up that he chose not to play was worth perhaps 9 points because of the fact that it negates the need for him to win the capture race and maybe a bit more because it takes away a couple of black forcing moves. But that would still mean that it would be two plays to take maybe 15 points.

And he didn't play the follow-up, so as it stands, his last move simply lost him sente and has netted him zero points.
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #68 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well... this is nice of white. Now I'll get something to attack to build up the right. Oh and solidify my corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O b . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . c a . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Playing tenuki is practically out of the question. I think that A gives white the least chance to make sabaki with squeezes that are quite often seen in variations after B. C, on the other hand - gives white the chance to live in the corner and I'd rather it not be that easy for white. I can not see a good white response.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . 1 3 4 5 . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . 7 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe this shape will give white the best chance to attack his way to safety. I think I'm ready for the fight though.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #69 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:25 pm 
Tengen
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My choice would have been:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . . 2 4 . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . 1 . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #70 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O W . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm looking at something like this. I get my attack on his floating stones, and reduce this area greatly. I'm not really sure where to go with 5.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O 1 2 3 . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . 5 . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #71 Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:52 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O W 1 2. |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As planned except I realize that trying to defend my corner is small and goes against my initial idea of making it hard for white to invade the right easily.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O W 1 2 . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . a . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The other way only gains a few points in the corner but leaves white aji on the right.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #72 Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Posts: 924
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
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DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . W . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm aiming at his floating stones. I played close here to keep away from the stones I wish to attack ... as paradoxical as it seems. I looked at this move, but judged that black attaching was too good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . 1 . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . 2 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Follow up for game move ... although I'm horrible at predicting his moves.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 The cap is no good
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . . 1 . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Miai.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . 5 1 . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , b . 2 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . 4 a . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #73 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:11 am 
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KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . B O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't help but feeling like this is super optimistic + overplay by white. Will post variations at the end of the day. I just want to keep the game moving along for now.
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #74 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:35 am 
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Posts: 924
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Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . W . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he hane's underneath, I'll connect out. If he makes the tiger's mouth, I extend up. If he crosscuts, I've found a variation that I like, but will have to look deeper.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #75 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:39 am 
Tengen
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@Red:

Had you considered this (or even the extension)?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #76 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:51 am 
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DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
The one point jump just feels thin to me. It leaves a large weakness at n18.

I considered the extension. I didn't find any reasons not to play it. I kinda just felt like playing the hane.
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #77 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:59 am 
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OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . W B . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's complicated. I may make an SGF for variations that I'm thinking - this diagram thing is just not working for me....
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #78 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:10 pm 
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Rank: lazy
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Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is really the only way to salvage this ... I really should have just extended.
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #79 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:09 pm 
Gosei
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I want to see black M14. Just for fun!

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My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.
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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: 92: Emerus (4k) vs. Redundant (1k)
Post #80 Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:18 pm 
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Rank: Fox Tygem 6d
KGS: emerus
Tygem: emerus
OGS: emerus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . O B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
GN[Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1]DT[2011-01-28]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]CR[le]AW[fa][ha][bb][gb][hb][ib][ob][pb][rb][bc][cc][dc][ec][gc][mc][dd][ed][gd][ld][fe][he][ie][le][df][ff][if][bg][dg][fg][hg][ch][dh][eh][fh][op][lq][oq][pq]AB[ba][cb][db][eb][fb][jb][qb][fc][ic][jc][lc][pc][qc][cd][fd][hd][md][pd][ce][ee][ge][je][cf][ef][gf][hf][qf][cg][eg][bh][bi][ci][di][dp][pp][qp][jq][qq]LB[lb:E][mb:D][nc:C][kd:F][nd:B][me:A]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1]PL[B]
(;CR[le])
(;B[me]LB[lb:A][mb:C][nc:B][lf:D][mf:E]
(;W[lb]LB[kc:A][nc:B][lf:C]
(;B[kc]
;W[lf]
(;B[nc]
;W[mb]
;B[nb]
;W[na]
;B[ma]
;W[la]
;B[ka]
;W[oc]
;B[nd])
(;B[mb]
;W[nc]))
(;B[nc])
(;B[lf]
;W[kc]))
(;W[nc]LB[lb:C][kd:B][lf:A]
(;B[lf]
;W[kc]
;B[lb])
(;B[kd])
(;B[lb]))
(;W[mb]LB[lb:C][kd:B][lf:A]
(;B[lf]
;W[kc]
(;B[kd]
;W[lb]
(;B[kb])
(;B[kf]
;W[ja]
(;B[ka])
(;B[kb])))
(;B[lb]
;W[kb]
;B[kd]
;W[la]
;B[lc]))
(;B[kd]
(;W[lb]
(;B[lf]
;W[kc]
;B[kf]
;W[mf]
;B[oe]
;W[ja]
(;B[kb]
;W[ka]
;B[lc])
(;B[ka]
;W[kb]
;B[ia]))
(;B[kc]))
(;W[lf]
;B[lb]))
(;B[lb]))
(;W[lf]
;B[nc]
(;W[kc]
;B[lb])
(;W[mb]
;B[nb]
;W[lb]
(;B[kb])
(;B[kc]
(;W[ja]
;B[kb])
(;W[na]
;B[ma]
;W[la]
;B[ka]))))
(;W[mf]LB[mb:C][nc:B][lf:A]
(;B[lf]
;W[kc]
(;B[kd]
;W[lb]
(;B[kf])
(;B[ke]
;W[lc]
;B[kf]
;W[ne]
;B[nd]
;W[od]
;B[nc]))
(;B[lb]
(;W[mb])
(;W[kf]
;B[lg]
;W[ke]
;B[nc])))
(;B[nc]
;W[mb]
;B[nb]
;W[lb]
;B[kc])
(;B[mb])))
(;B[nd]LB[lb:A][mb:C][kc:B]
(;W[lb]
;B[kc])
(;W[kc]
;B[lb])
(;W[mb]))
(;B[nc]LB[mb:A][kc:B]
(;W[mb])
(;W[kc]))
(;B[mb]LB[kc:B][nc:A]
(;W[nc])
(;W[kc]))
(;B[lb]LB[mb:B][nc:C][nd:A]
(;W[nd])
(;W[mb])
(;W[nc]))
(;B[kd]LB[lb:A][nc:D][nd:B][me:C]
(;W[lb])
(;W[nd])
(;W[me])
(;W[nc])))[/sgf-full]

I expect white E or possibly D for a safer shape.


Variations after this move just look too good. I hope I'm not messing this up. However, it's fully possible that he made a huge blunder; I expected this crosscut to force white into life while I build influence and strengthen my stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . W 1 . O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The extension seemed ill advised:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . X . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X X X O O O X . 4 2 3 O O X O . |
$$ | . O O O O X O . X X . X O . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O X . , . . 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . X O X O O X . 6 . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X O X X O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This seems like a better fight for B. Albeit, I think it's better than what white actually played.
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