in you dont go in and let him play the corner then one who played it will suffer more.
Why? This looks the same as playing the corner enclosure after a 3-4 point. And I've never heard that that is a bad move.
it is not matter of bad or good. it is a matter of what my opponent wants.
when he played that move he is asking me to go in and he will take influence. for that reason i will not go in. let him suffer little and let him play the corner.
if he miss the timing to solidify the corner then he might lose the game. from my experience..it is harder to play 5-3 point then played 5-3.
_________________ "The more we think we know about The greater the unknown" Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Ok, his move was excellent. I've decided playing there now isn't urgent, and taking this shimari is at least as big. Later, I get to extend with a knight from the lower right in sente, which could give me a huge corner. I assume he's going to take K17, and I'll approach with C14:
Ok, his move was excellent. I've decided playing there now isn't urgent, and taking this shimari is at least as big. Later, I get to extend with a knight from the lower right in sente, which could give me a huge corner. I assume he's going to take K17, and I'll approach with C14:
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Further thoughts:
Ok, this is pretty much as I'd planned it last move. I'm reasonably happy, although White will clearly approach the lower right next. So, first a question for strong players to answer: I really wanted to pressure White's stone before approaching the top left, but I felt it was not possible because of the following:
I chose to reinforce the top right first, to take away White's extension towards the top right from being sente, but I still feel that this exchange is somehow good for White. Moyo-phobia?
First diagram feels ok enough, as Black can secure his corner later, and White doesn't get an easy job of the slide. Black can also build a nice framework in the top right. The second diagram feels like overplay for White, as he has to come back and look after the right side. The third diagram is the most interesting, and I haven't decided how I'm going to respond. My considerations are "a" through to "d", probably in that order. I consider myself strong enough to dive in the middle, and would be happy with the following:
Here, I play low because it makes a more robust shape across the bottom. A three point jump on the 4th line can get brutally destroyed by an invasion at "a", which is annoyingly hard to handle. With a low-high position, "a" is outright bad for White, and "b", although normal, still has some good resistances for Black. I can share variations if people ask.
Principle II: responding or not
My previous discussion about not playing in the lower right comes down to the command of the flow of the game. When there are lots of big points, being able to take a useful point in sente and then take the next one is great, but it is very common for your opponent to resist. I have to therefore assume that I can't get the response I want, particularly when I'm only hassling a single stone that may be treated lightly, and compare "what if he ignores me" to "what happens if I take that other big point in gote, and he gets to play in the lower right instead". The idea of "if he responds, I can get both" can only be considered if I think it's a really bad thing for him to ignore. Here, I didn't think it was.
So, as long as I can find a better solution to the high counter approach, I'm going with this. If I can't, I'll have to think whether I risk it anyway, depending on what my alternatives are.
Ok, I'm struggling here. Here's an interesting idea I've got if it happens, but none of the josekis I like my result in particularly, so I'm forced to be "creative" a bit
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@topazg:
Did you consider 17 at N3 at all? If yes, what was your conclusion? If no, why not? (I know it is a bit unorthodox, but I believe it is still playable in this position)
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tj86430 wrote:
@topazg:
Did you consider 17 at N3 at all? If yes, what was your conclusion? If no, why not? (I know it is a bit unorthodox, but I believe it is still playable in this position)
To be honest, I didn't particularly. Looking at it now, I'm still not entirely sure I'd want to play it. The aji of a long knight is not hugely different from an extra long knight (less, but still with a few shape weaknesses), and the aji of a short knight is much smaller than a long knight. Particularly as I want to protect the corner if I play at all, I want to veer on the side of safety towards the right. Yilun Yang has drilled in the importance of balancing high and low, and short and long gaps a bit as well.
Interestingly, if my extension from the bottom left had been a long knight (J4 instead of K4), I would almost definitely have considered N3 more seriously here.
topazg: as i said before you are stronger than 1d. more like 3d in my opinion
exactly what i expected him to play. as white i have to maintain my komi. i think i am doing exactly that. in my opinion he should play more aggresively but i guess he feels different.
c and d are miai. a and b are equally big. i guess we pretty much have textbook opening. i will twist the sequence soon as i have a chance and test his fortitude.
Still, I'm happy with this. He's fixing his problems, I'm picking up points with the aji. I'm thinking about high or low. Low is a bit less pressury but it doesn't leave that shape annoyance I alluded to earlier. I'm hoping to build some good points at the bottom, and am considering the following:
So, I figure he'll play @ , and if I take the 3-3 I'm feeling flat. However, it's still 3 corners that are looking mine, and the other being disputed, so I'm still pretty tempted. I really want in this diagram, as it develops the bottom so nicely, but it's clearly gote. This is a possibility:
feels huge in this diagram, but if I play it, feels very important too, so it is gote. I expect White to play which may mean I get to take the bottom left, but if White omits and plays it at I don't feel like I can easily ignore it. If White gets to play :w26 after a forcing exchange in the lower left, I will feel pretty unhappy:
I've used it quite successfully in real time games recently, I just bottled out More's the shame! Lovely joseki idea in the top right though, I'll have a good investigate, that looks like a handy tool in my repertoire as I play this 5-3 + 4-4 opening a fair bit.
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is not very attractive. 
then i am happy. black should have play there first but he missed it.
low because it makes a more robust shape across the bottom. A three point jump on the 4th line can get brutally destroyed by an invasion at "a", which is annoyingly hard to handle. With a low-high position, "a" is outright bad for White, and "b", although normal, still has some good resistances for Black. I can share variations if people ask.
@ 
, and if I take the 3-3 I'm feeling flat. However, it's still 3 corners that are looking mine, and the other being disputed, so I'm still pretty tempted. I really want 
in this diagram, as it develops the bottom so nicely, but it's clearly gote. This is a possibility:
feels huge in this diagram, but if I play it, 
I don't feel like I can easily ignore it. If White gets to play :w26 after a forcing exchange in the lower left, I will feel pretty unhappy:
and 
in these diagrams, and then slide in the lower left, but I want to think about it a bit more first.