Basic endgame problem -- feedback requested

Mnemonic · **#21**

@ Loons

Bill Spight · **#22**

Loons wrote:

I'm a little curious; ye fellow sdks who are saying "seems very hard" - could you go into more detail ? Which step(s) are ambiguous, for example. I know I find the e-1 affair a little niggle-y to consciously think about (a two point gote that makes a new two point gote if black plays it? Is that how you describe it?), but not really write-off material.

Bill; I added a small note for you in my previous post.

Yes, that is helpful. Thanks.

Quote:

Also, how hard do you find this sort of diagram/problem to create ?

In the past I have had trouble with finding room for the plays, and with making sure the number of stones are right. Now, instead of starting with the plays, I started with a random pattern of 50 Black stones and 49 White stones.

I also used a 13x13 board instead of an 11x11 board, although the problem will fit a smaller board. Small secret:

Quote:

a hint for mw42

Kirby · **#23**

Around 10k for large ranges of "around".

Bill Spight · **#24**

mw42 wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Thanks for having a look at my solution, but I must admit your comment baffles me. :-)

Well, finding the right play for Black at that point is easier than the original problem, and will help you to solve it.

mw42 · **#25**

Bill Spight · **#26**

mw42 wrote:

:!:

Bingo!

jts · **#27**

Loons wrote:

I'm a little curious; ye fellow sdks who are saying "seems very hard" - could you go into more detail ?

I'm not really qualified to say what problem is or isn't appropriate for the 10 kyu level, but there are a number of reasons it seems like it would be hard to me.

Mnemonic · **#28**

Third and final attempt

My (probably wrong) solution

Final thoughts

Bill Spight · **#29**

Mnemonic wrote:

Third and final attempt

My (probably wrong) solution

Final thoughts

Many thanks, Mnemonic, for sharing your thinking.

Even though you did not solve the problem, I am quite impressed.

Would it have helped if:

Bill Spight · **#30**

Thanks to people for pointing out that the size of the problem increased the difficulty.

My thought was to be realistic by adding some small, supposedly easy plays. What if I eliminated them?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W White to play. Japanese rules. 6.5 komi. $$ --------------------------- $$ | . . X O . . . O O O O X . | $$ | X . X O O O O . O . X X . | $$ | . X O . . X . O O O X O . | $$ | X X X X X . X O X O O X . | $$ | O O O O X . X . X X X X . | $$ | . . O X . X . X O X . X . | $$ | . . O X . X . X O X X X . | $$ | . O O . O X . X O . O X . | $$ | . X O O X X X O O X . X . | $$ | . O . O O X X . O X X X O | $$ | . . O . . . X O O O O X X | $$ | . . O O X X X O . O O X . | $$ | . . O . O O X O O . O . . | $$ ---------------------------[/go]

Better? Worse? Meh?

Mnemonic · **#31**

Arrrg, what? I got slaughter!?! :sad:

Dan players just got a whole lot scarier :sad:

Like you weren’t scary enough already :sad:

Answering jts

And then, can someone please explain where I went wrong? :scratch:

Phelan · **#32**

Loons wrote:

I'm a little curious; ye fellow sdks who are saying "seems very hard" - could you go into more detail ? Which step(s) are ambiguous, for example. I know I find the e-1 affair a little niggle-y to consciously think about (a two point gote that makes a new two point gote if black plays it? Is that how you describe it?), but not really write-off material.

daal · **#33**

Bill Spight wrote:

My thought was to be realistic by adding some small, supposedly easy plays. What if I eliminated them?

Better? Worse? Meh?

Better. All of the plays are small and easy, but since the problem asks us to find the right order of plays, less choices would make it easier to handle. Fewer possibilities would also make counting and comparing less of a chore.

mw42 · **#34**

Mnemonic wrote:

:shock: Arrrg, what? I got slaughter!?! :sad:

Dan players just got a whole lot scarier :sad:

Like you weren’t scary enough already :sad:

Answering jts

And then, can someone please explain where I went wrong? :scratch:

Mnemonic · **#35**

@ mw42

Edit

Dusk Eagle · **#36**

Endgame is definitely an area I urgently need to work on. The original problem overwhelmed me (though I'd like to come back to it from time to time to hone my skills). Anyway, my first thought in this simplified problem turned out wrong when I counted it, but I believe I have solved it.

daniel_the_smith · **#37**

If 10 kyus are supposed to get these problems, I must be really really bad at endgame... Do you all have a table of values memorized or do you calculate them out each time?

Mnemonic · **#38**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

If 10 kyus are supposed to get these problems, I must be really really bad at endgame

Dusk Eagle wrote:

The original problem overwhelmed me

Dan players starting to look cute again :mrgreen:

Anyway, now that I understood the theory behind the move I formally request that Bill (or anybody else) makes another problem. I would like to see if I could get the next one. :rambo:

And mad props to Bill Spight for the first one :tmbup:

quantumf · **#39**

daniel_the_smith wrote:

If 10 kyus are supposed to get these problems, I must be really really bad at endgame

I know what you mean...otoh, it seems that some basic assessment and counting could pay off significantly.

Dusk Eagle · **#40**

For the record, I considered myself bad at endgame before this thread. Though I still think Bill said 10k as a practical joke.

Basic endgame problem -- feedback requested

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