Identify these games!

Talk about improving your game, resources you like, games you played, etc.
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dangomango
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Identify these games!

Post by dangomango »

Ok! I've seen a post on GD before posting couple games and asking you to identify the players strength type
below are some games i found on KGS and another pro game
and the goal of this game is to identify players strength of each game

game ranks include (pro, kgs7d, 4d, 1k, 6k, 11k and 18k)
total of 7 games

oh and feel free to discuss why you decide that game is of specific strength
for example: Game A is a pro game because move 11 is clearly a clever tesuji of pro reading only!

Game A


Game B


Game C


Game D


Game E


Game F


Game G
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by lorill »

A
6 or 11k
move 75 is too small to be better

B.
stronger than me, i'd miss the connection under at move 29
the semeai was great too. I'd say 4d or better.

C
strange game, and no resign after the capture ?
too many mistakes, 11 or 18k, probably 18k

D
move 9 and subsequent excludes ddks.
I don't understand this game, so probably 7d or pro
Ends pretty close with regards to the captures and fight, so yeah, probably pro

E
starts strong, but then moves 54? 75?
and this isn't a blitz, so probably our 11k here

F
move 18 doesn't feel pro, but the result is good, so why not ?
I'd miss move 58, but doesn't it waste a ko threat ?

recap:
A: 6k
B: 4d
C: 18k
D: pro
E: 11k
F: 7d
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by Magicwand »

C: very strong reading. very close to professional.
D: i didnt find any move that is wrong. excellent fuseki. definitly professional.
other..hurts my eye. ouch.
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by Dusk Eagle »

Game E was horrendous, so I'm going to say 18k.
For Game G, I don't want to imagine that anyone stronger than 11k would play a move like :w46:.

Game F feels sort of like how I played when I was ~6k, so I'll go with that. It didn't feel good, but it was a huge improvement over E and G.
I didn't really like Game A either, but it's better than the others so far, so I'll put it at 1k.

Game B was played with Canadian timing rules, so it's clearly not pro. I think it's 4-dan play, but I could be wrong and it may be the 7dan game.
Game C looks like a classic winner-take-all disaster game from high-dan KGS play. It's pretty unlikely that a pro would fall into this situation.

That leaves Game D as the pro game. I already suspected this was the pro game from the high-caliber :w22: to the good shape both players fought for, so when I noticed there were no time limits posted in the SGF for this game it only made me more sure.
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by Mef »

I haven't look at any move from any of the games yet but....

Games A and G have a komi of 0.5, this suggests to me it's highly unlikely they would be professional. (=
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CSamurai
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by CSamurai »

Mef wrote:I haven't look at any move from any of the games yet but....

Games A and G have a komi of 0.5, this suggests to me it's highly unlikely they would be professional. (=


Obvious things:
Time constraints: Game D is the only game without time settings listed, therefore is the only game which came from some place other than KGS. Doesn't preclude it from being a club match, but I'm betting it's the only pro game.
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by topazg »

@dangomango: This sort of exercise gets metagamed. There are a number of ways to minimise that. a) Make sure no games are blitz. b) Make sure all games are close (+/- a few points). c) remove all .sgf meta-data. A game that is 30 or so points different is never going to a pro game, simply because there aren't any that finish with that margin.

That said, my guesses:

A - 7d - Some very interesting use of tenuki, good joseki knowledge, dynamic fuseki. Would also believe 4d, but not below, and definitely not pro.
B - 4d - Feels weaker than 4d, but it's weaker to my eyes than "a" and it's the only thing left. Some very strong reading, but also reading blunders.
C - 1k - Seriously overplays, missed opportunities, aji keshi, horrible shape, but patches of strong reading.
D - pro - Modern common professional fuseki, interesting/complicated sacrifices, no needless moves.
E - 18k - Made my eyes bleed.
F - 6k - Overplay, aji-keshi, not great reading, but followed a reasonable flow and idea in principle.
G - 11k - Some really horrible misreads, but most moves had some purpose.
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by Magicwand »

topazg wrote:
A - 7d - Some very interesting use of tenuki, good joseki knowledge, dynamic fuseki. Would also believe 4d, but not below, and definitely not pro.

i am kgs 4 dan and game A look horrorable. full of wrong timing move and mistakes.
and you say they might be 7d...

then again..i might be wrong and its not the first time...
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by topazg »

Magicwand wrote:
i am kgs 4 dan and game A look horrorable. full of wrong timing move and mistakes.
and you say they might be 7d...

then again..i might be wrong and its not the first time...


I considered it stronger than B and C, and E-G are in my mind all clearly the weakest games. I found a number of sequences in A to be very interesting, such as :w38: to :w62: - this is not the play of a kyu player to me. The final kill was also too well read for a kyu player.

I wanted to put this down as 4d, but moves like :b15: in game B followed by being completely beaten up in the middle makes me consider B a weaker game than A.

In Game C, :w16: seems like gross overplay for an extra 4 or 5 points with a huge huge cost if you misread makes it feel like kyu overplay. 20 seconds to work out whether or not to connect at R17, and :w44: not a net seem like kyu play again. High dans would play :b75: at K12 rather than peep a bamboo, and no dan would play :w88: and :w90: surely?
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by TMark »

topazg wrote:@dangomango: This sort of exercise gets metagamed. There are a number of ways to minimise that. a) Make sure no games are blitz. b) Make sure all games are close (+/- a few points). c) remove all .sgf meta-data. A game that is 30 or so points different is never going to a pro game, simply because there aren't any that finish with that margin.

That said, my guesses:

A - 7d - Some very interesting use of tenuki, good joseki knowledge, dynamic fuseki. Would also believe 4d, but not below, and definitely not pro.
B - 4d - Feels weaker than 4d, but it's weaker to my eyes than "a" and it's the only thing left. Some very strong reading, but also reading blunders.
C - 1k - Seriously overplays, missed opportunities, aji keshi, horrible shape, but patches of strong reading.
D - pro - Modern common professional fuseki, interesting/complicated sacrifices, no needless moves.
E - 18k - Made my eyes bleed.
F - 6k - Overplay, aji-keshi, not great reading, but followed a reasonable flow and idea in principle.
G - 11k - Some really horrible misreads, but most moves had some purpose.


Just for a bit of fun, here is a game betwen a 6d pro and a 5 dan pro; please note the result.



Best wishes.
No aji, keshi, kifu or kikashi has been harmed in the compiling of this post.
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dangomango
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by dangomango »

topazg wrote:@dangomango: This sort of exercise gets metagamed. There are a number of ways to minimise that. a) Make sure no games are blitz. b) Make sure all games are close (+/- a few points). c) remove all .sgf meta-data. A game that is 30 or so points different is never going to a pro game, simply because there aren't any that finish with that margin.


maybe i'll choose better games next time and try to remove all those .sgf stuff
so far comparing the answer to those spoilers hidden tags has been very amusing to me
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by topazg »

When's the answer coming !! :P
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dangomango
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by dangomango »

was going to wait for a while before posting the answers
and the winner is

Dusk Eagle with all of them correct

Game A 1k vs 1d (my game lol)
Game B 4d
Game C 7d
Game D Pro (Cho Cheolan vs Jiang Wei Jie at the 15th LG Cup)
Game E 18k
Game F 6k
Game G 11k
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by Dusk Eagle »

TMark wrote:
topazg wrote:@dangomango: This sort of exercise gets metagamed. There are a number of ways to minimise that. a) Make sure no games are blitz. b) Make sure all games are close (+/- a few points). c) remove all .sgf meta-data. A game that is 30 or so points different is never going to a pro game, simply because there aren't any that finish with that margin.

That said, my guesses:

A - 7d - Some very interesting use of tenuki, good joseki knowledge, dynamic fuseki. Would also believe 4d, but not below, and definitely not pro.
B - 4d - Feels weaker than 4d, but it's weaker to my eyes than "a" and it's the only thing left. Some very strong reading, but also reading blunders.
C - 1k - Seriously overplays, missed opportunities, aji keshi, horrible shape, but patches of strong reading.
D - pro - Modern common professional fuseki, interesting/complicated sacrifices, no needless moves.
E - 18k - Made my eyes bleed.
F - 6k - Overplay, aji-keshi, not great reading, but followed a reasonable flow and idea in principle.
G - 11k - Some really horrible misreads, but most moves had some purpose.


Just for a bit of fun, here is a game betwen a 6d pro and a 5 dan pro; please note the result.

...

Best wishes.

If I were white, I would be pretty ticked at black. Is there a backstory to why black refused to resign?
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Re: Identify these games!

Post by TMark »

I have no idea why not resignation. Mark you, this was only the first pro game I had found; the second one was between two 9dans, Kamimura Kunio and Komatsu Hedeki in 2002, where the score was W+31.5. Never say never!

Best wishes.
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