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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #381 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:04 pm 
Gosei
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WIC:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

While Red's suggestion makes a lot of sense, I'll recommend one in the corner. Hopefully it's sente enough, and it would leave us the option of a peep on the other side of the middle to aid our growing right. As an aside, we need to beware Q10 in the future, if much more is added to the middle...

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #382 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:12 pm 
Gosei

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WIC/suggestion:

I think the best suggestions are already taken, so I will suggest this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black doesn't fix their cuts, there are some weaknesses we can aim for later.

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #383 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:55 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Team:
Hmmm, interesting stuff. I'm not sure Black should allow the wedge unless he's happy playing the atari from the left - why leave cutting points if you don't have to ?

I agree with Red that sente is nice for that top left, and Chew feels the same way too, which is good. Chew, please give the joseki continuation(s) you are hoping expecting for with that move :)


Obs:
I think that's a mistake by Black. My personal feeling would have been to extend, which leaves no shape problems, or to have play directly in the top left and allowed the hane - it's painful, but the top left is huge. However, here Black gets some of the disadvantages of the tenuki, without any of the disadvantages. Of course we have to be careful about Black cutting one side or the other, but:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X 8 7 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . 6 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black is in a lot of trouble here...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm40
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 5 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . 4 . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This requires careful reading for White, but now any joseki choice in the top left is _huge_.

White has a few things to be pleased about here, but careful reading and timing are vital.

Some further reading (very non-exhaustive indeed).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X 6 2 3 7 O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . X 1 4 X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O 8 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . 9 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X 4 3 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 1 2 . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #384 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:25 pm 
Site Admin
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Black Internal chat

we wanted to prevent the hane.. they tried it anyways... so the only option is to atari I suppose... one can only atari from two sides here... (a) or (b)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b O a . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if (a)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm :b3: at (a) or (b)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 O 1 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X b . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if (b)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X b . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now black has aji at (a) and a weak cut point for white at (b). This also builds up whites ability to create a larger moyo on the right side... definitely not good for black.

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #385 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:45 pm 
Lives in gote
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yeah for the reasons jordus said, m11

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #386 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:33 pm 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O B . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To observers:
Now, how far eastward can we stretch with our next move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . b c . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The honte move is probably 'a', but - since the tropies are small - I'd like to try 'b' or even 'c' next.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . B . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 1 2 . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X 3 5 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 4 . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O 7 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #387 Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:50 pm 
Gosei

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #388 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:15 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Team+Obs:

No other choice

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #389 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:31 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X b . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think our best options now would be to fill in our aji at (a) or (b). At this point I think (a) is the better play for us. (a) guarantees that the group is connected. The ability to bring that side stone to life also heightens with the wall we are creating by staying connected and filling bad aji.

If we ignore (a):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

whites cut hows now effectively cut off our running group and put us into SOS mode to save the group because we can not create an eye in that area any longer....

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #390 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:59 pm 
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I think this is the best way to protect both of our cuts:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X 3 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I still want a at some point soon...

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #391 Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:07 pm 
Gosei
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[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . a O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of the two cuts, it's most essential to protect this one, and Jedo's move makes me feel kinda icky about a white move at a. My move still allows for a, but the results is somewhat less clunky. And because of the ladder, Jedo's move doesn't protect both cuts thoroughly.

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Post #392 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:48 am 
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Yeah Fwiffo is definitely right, my move doesn't make any sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #393 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:55 am 
Judan
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Jedo wrote:
Yeah Fwiffo is definitely right, my move doesn't make any sense.


It does. I was going to choose yours over Fwiffo's. I just hadn't decided to play safe with Jordus' implied suggestion, or get aggressive with yours.

If we are sufficiently aggressive, making them worry about reactivating R8, then we may be the first to tenuki to the upper left.

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This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: Jedo
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Post #394 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:09 am 
Gosei
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Well, this is all my fault for suggesting that stupid jump.

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #395 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:12 am 
Judan
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To teammates:
fwiffo wrote:
Well, this is all my fault for suggesting that stupid jump.


It is a complication of the jump, but yours was the best of the three. FWIW, I wanted the simple extension.

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Post #396 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:32 am 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After watching Kirby get in trouble vs Magicawand after choosing a slightly greedy kiema, I'm going to play honte.

Now it is a major question for white: 'a' or 'b'?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . a . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , a . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . b b . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . . O . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #397 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:43 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 5 . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Let's poke and then cut. It has some threat against the bottom right, and leaves the existing black cutting stone floating (and weaker than our cutting stone). Black could take the chance to make a little more strength facing our right side, which we'll have to be wary of, but I think it's worth it for the central strength this can give us.

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #398 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:56 am 
Tengen
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Obs:

And that is the weakness of the jump. I love chew's idea, really love it, but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X b . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O 6 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"a" and "b" aren't big enough if Black is simply alive here. I need to read some complicated corner stuff. I think there's only 1 eye there. If Black needs to play again to stay alive, I'm taking chew's suggestion as we get to get great thickness facing the top left. If he doesn't, we play in the top left now if we get the suggestion.


Further thoughts:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Still only one eye
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . 9 X 4 5 |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . a X 7 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 2 . 8 6 0 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Probably good enough, but corner lives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X 9 . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 7 . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 6 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Erm, what? I can't read this
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O 6 |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . . X 2 3 |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . . 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 One eye
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . . X . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm48 Looks like 2 eyes?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . 7 X 2 3 |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X 0 . X 5 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O a 9 8 . 6 4 b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #399 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:27 am 
Gosei

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WIC/suggestion:

It seems that our wall faces our potential territory, whereas their wall faces our fairly certain territory. So lets keep pushing, K12 is almost certainly sente now.

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 Post subject: Re: Teamovitch #1
Post #400 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:43 am 
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