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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #101 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:43 pm 
Gosei
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What the what?

[edit]Oops, I bumped Araban's move onto the previous page - @magicwand, it's your move.[/edit]

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #102 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:06 pm 
Gosei
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Araban

Your joseki is too hard for me, argh!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Ladder at 'a' works for white
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . a 1 5 . |
$$ . . . . O O X 2 . |
$$ . . X 7 . X O 6 . |
$$ . . . 3 X 4 O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe 7 is an extension on the right or something instead.

Warm or cold ?


Edit:
Obs
Yeah, I do think that my sequence (leastways to 6) must be played, and I think is slightly favourable to MW over the conventional joseki various.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 0 . . 8 . . |
$$ . . B 3 O O X . . |
$$ . . X 2 1 X O 6 . |
$$ . . 9 4 7 . 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #103 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:59 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . O O X 7 . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


was i surprised? no..
i took few minutes to verify that move before.
i expected that and didnt think he would play that.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #104 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:28 am 
Gosei
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Hey Magicwand:
You can look at all of my last post. What are you planning for my :w7: ? How do you think it stacks up against one of the more normal joseki ?

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #105 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:12 am 
Tengen
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Loons wrote:
Hey Magicwand:
You can look at all of my last post. What are you planning for my :w7: ? How do you think it stacks up against one of the more normal joseki ?

to Loons:
you are very strong to comeup with that variation.
but one comment:
your 5 & 6 exchange..is it really necessary?
reason why i ask this question is...if it is not a good move for your opponent to play then it is not necessary for you to play it.
if black plays 5 instead and you extend..there is nothing that is beneficial to black.
so i would save that exchange for ko threat or some other use.

edit:
what i meant by some other use :
it will be better for you not to exchange that incase he is able to cut at "a" and you have to sacrifice that stone.


good lesson? :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Ladder at 'a' works for white
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . a 1 5 . |
$$ . . . . O O X 2 . |
$$ . . X 7 . X O 6 . |
$$ . . . 3 X 4 O X . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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This post by Magicwand was liked by 2 people: Joaz Banbeck, Loons
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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #106 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:59 am 
Tengen
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to Loons:
right now it is not joseki.
joseki means that both players will not lose any point.
this corner look too good for white.
i actually thought about his (unexpected) move before i attach.
and didnt think he would play that because he will lose too much.

as i said many times before if i get greddy and try to live in the corner i would lose 20~30 point in an instant.
i dont think any dan level players will fall into that trap.
"when something dont look right usually there is tesuji hiding to be found." quote from cho namchul 9dan.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #107 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:26 am 
Tengen
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for obs:
i had one dilemma i didnt like on this board.
if you see below variation you can see that marked influence will help him build right side.
i can not jump in because of my weak group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X . . 2 O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

why did he hanne other way and let me out of that dilemma?
i guess his final exam prep is making him effect his thinking.

i am totally enjoying quality game against strong player like sol.
i wish i can have another game when he is not too busy..

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #108 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:50 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
i am totally enjoying quality game against strong player like sol.
i wish i can have another game when he is not too busy..
I can't quite decide whether to :clap: for bringing out the knives, or to say that this is a bit much. I think it's the latter.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #109 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:53 am 
Gosei
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hyperpape wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
i am totally enjoying quality game against strong player like sol.
i wish i can have another game when he is not too busy..
I can't quite decide whether to :clap: for bringing out the knives, or to say that this is a bit much. I think it's the latter.

Oh, I just read it as 'Man, this is fun, let's do it again!' Not sure if it's connected to the prior paragraph or not.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #110 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:58 am 
Tengen

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@ Chew
It's just a little brash to say "my opponent must be suffering from his exams--that's why he's missing moves". Not the worst sin in the world, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #111 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:05 am 
Gosei
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hyperpape wrote:
@ Chew
It's just a little brash to say "my opponent must be suffering from his exams--that's why he's missing moves". Not the worst sin in the world, of course.

Oh, certainly. However, if we played a game and I made a move that seemed obviously a mistake to you (self-atari/blocking a 3-3 invasion the wrong way, et cetera), then it's more polite to say 'Man, he's such a good player, he must be distracted' than 'Man, maybe he's worse than I thought!'. I agree though, seemed a bit brash. Man, this sort of trick move-y fight leaves me in the dust. =)

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #112 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:35 pm 
Gosei
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Rank: AGA 5d
KGS: Capsule 4d
Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 9 O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I feel like MW is my dad who just caught my hand in the cookie jar or something. Anyways, I'm going to try and limit myself from playing moves when I'm sleep-deprived. Image

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #113 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:00 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X 0 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #114 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:03 pm 
Gosei
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Tygem: 치킨까스 5d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . 1 . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Absolutely crucial to play this move. If White plays here his shape is invincible. Yes, invincible.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #115 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:13 pm 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i will play solid game.

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #116 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:18 pm 
Tengen
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i really dont think that was good move by my opponent.

if i was black i would play on the side as below diag.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . C . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #117 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:20 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think he should have played here first, before hanging. He has to respond, otherwise his move that gives him good shape will not give him good shape. I don't know the terminologies very well, but I think it's...reverse sente? Something like that (if Bill Spight is reading this he's probably shaking his sad sadly...).

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #118 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
My sealed moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 4 . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O 3 . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #119 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:23 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
@Araban
I think a move that's sente for both is called "double sente"...

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That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com

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 Post subject: Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand
Post #120 Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:25 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X O . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . X . O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


he gained one point and i gained more than 1 point influence.
why does he not see these moves???

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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